1887 Husqvarna made Swedish Nagant - antique serial range?

[NorthWoods22]

Does anyone have documentation on which serial number ranges of the 1887 Husqvarna made Swedish Nagant revolvers are antiques in Canada?

I found one at the local FFL with a 3 digit serial number, and inspector stamped with "PB" for Pontus Bruno.

I know an oft-cited figure (taken from this website: https://www.gotavapen.se/gota/artiklar/swedishpistols/m87/rev87.htm) is that 350 were made in 1897, and 5400 made in 1898. Thus, in the states, you often see ones with a serial < 5700 being sold as antiques with no FFL required.
I know in Canada, the cutoff is a year earlier, or 1897, meaning there would only be 350 that count as canadian antiques.

Is there a book page or scan that proves that the first 350 were made in 1897? I've also heard that Pontus Bruno retired sometime in 1896, and was replaced by Per Theodor Bergsten (PTB) on later revolvers. Is there any documentation (book pages, document scans) that prove this? I would like to verify this before making any purchase decisions.

Thanks.

 

[Thiopento]

Good question, the last time I looked into this, the famous 350 serial cutoff the Canadian Firearms Program uses comes from a book source and someone posted the actual picture of the quote a while back that the CFP uses in their decision. Don't have it with me offhand though, maybe you can find it amongst the many other antique nagant revolver threads ?

 

[appleorangefish]

Are those the ones that are often talked about because they can take factory 32 SW Long?

I'm surprised how much they're mentioned here if there are only 350 that are legally antique.

 

[apu]

Are those the ones that are often talked about because they can take factory 32 SW Long?

I'm surprised how much they're mentioned here if there are only 350 that are legally antique.

Your thinking of the m1882 Swiss revolvers, which share a similar cartridge. I have an example of each.

My Swedish Nagant has a serial under 200. None of these early Nagants were made by Husqvarna, these early antique Swedish Nagants were made by Nagant in Liege, Belgium. They are typically stamped Brevet Nagant on the left anterior portion of the frame.

 

[Pinfire]

Your thinking of the m1882 Swiss revolvers, which share a similar cartridge. I have an example of each.

My Swedish Nagant has a serial under 200. None of these early Nagants were made by Husqvarna, these early antique Swedish Nagants were made by Nagant in Liege, Belgium. They are typically stamped Brevet Nagant on the left anterior portion of the frame.

I’m not sure why I clicked on this thread, as I have no real interest in revolvers — to each their own, I guess. But I have to say, your photographic skills are outstanding. And thanks for the historical data.

 

[NorthWoods22]

Good question, the last time I looked into this, the famous 350 serial cutoff the Canadian Firearms Program uses comes from a book source and someone posted the actual picture of the quote a while back that the CFP uses in their decision. Don't have it with me offhand though, maybe you can find it amongst the many other antique nagant revolver threads ?

Using the search found these two old forum posts about who mentioned an RCMP scanned book page with the 350 cutoff. Does anyone have the image of the scan?
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...gant-Antique?p=4799853&viewfull=1#post4799853
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...ver-question?p=3680603&viewfull=1#post3680603

 

[Killer Kanuck]

Found it -

 

[Thiopento]

Found it -

Eh nice job!

 

[NorthWoods22]

Found it -

View attachment 535871

Thank you Kill Kanuck. Looks like this is from "The Revolver" series of books by AWF Taylerson. I believe one of my collector friends has the 1889-1914 book; I'll ask him for those pages.

 

[KotKotofeich]

I have confirmation from a lab tech that they consider the first 350 antique and will issue letter for. I had an opportunity to request a letter this spring for a two digit serial revolver and confirmed the cutoff with them. So if you are under 350 you will not need to prove anything to them

None of these early Nagants were made by Husqvarna, these early antique Swedish Nagants were made by Nagant in Liege, Belgium. They are typically stamped Brevet Nagant on the left anterior portion of the frame.

That would be incorrect. The 350 serial cutoff is specifically for Husqvarna made nagants. Belgian made Swedish contract revolvers are antique or not based on a different determination.

 

[orangemushroom]

I saw online that apparently some of these Swedish Nagants frames were refitted with 9mm Browning long cylinders and barrels after the Swedes adopted the FN 1903 pistol.

https://reddit.com/r/ForgottenWeapo...imental_swedish_nagant_revolver_chambered_in/

Does this mean the Swedish Nagants are more durable and stronger than the Swiss Nagants?

 

[apu]

I have confirmation from a lab tech that they consider the first 350 antique and will issue letter for. I had an opportunity to request a letter this spring for a two digit serial revolver and confirmed the cutoff with them. So if you are under 350 you will not need to prove anything to them



That would be incorrect. The 350 serial cutoff is specifically for Husqvarna made nagants. Belgian made Swedish contract revolvers are antique or not based on a different determination.

I see how my post may have caused some confusion but I don't think I was incorrect in suggesting the earliest Belgian made m1887 revolvers accepted to the Swedish military were precursors to the earliest Husqvarna production versions( i.e. there are more than 350 antique eligible Swedish Nagant m1887 revolvers) . Anyways if the revolver is marked with Brevet Nagant and Belgium proofs (ELG in oval without crown would suggest it is pre 1893) it was made in Liege and if its Husqvarna marked its probably Swedish production although there are some examples of both markings that may imply Belgium origin with a subsequent re arsenal and re stamp by Husqvarna .

 

[KotKotofeich]

I see how my post may have caused some confusion.

I see, you were talking about the Swedish contract guns that seem to be so prevalent. Most people having Belgian made guns makes sense, no worries

 

[gewehr76]

Does this mean the Swedish Nagants are more durable and stronger than the Swiss Nagants?

There is no such thing as Swiss Nagant. Swiss used their own home grown talent in the name of Rudolph Schmidt to design their revolver.
As to durability, there is none that is stronger than M1895 Nagant

 

[appleorangefish]

Found it -

View attachment 535871

Does anyone have a picture of the previous page, or presumably any documentation on the production years of the Brevet Nagant marked revolvers?

 

[freemanriveradventures]

Cut off serial number for the Swedish Nagants is 350. I had bought number 442 and was informed by the ident techs that is was not antique status and that only the first 350 are considered antique in Canada.

 

[KotKotofeich]

One is, one isn't (though it is US antique still)... it is what it is...

 

[appleorangefish]

One is, one isn't... it is what it is...

No landstormen numbers = both are commercial models?

 

[KotKotofeich]

No landstormen numbers = both are commercial models?

I don't think so - remember the first 350 were for a military contract, so literally all the Canadian antique guns are military...

The restricted has the postal service crest on the other side - I'm less confident of this info, but I seem to recall postal service guns were ex-military.

so just no Landstormen numbers

And just to disambiguate - these are both Husqvarna made, not Belgian.

 

[mearkat32]

Cut off serial number for the Swedish Nagants is 350. I had bought number 442 and was informed by the ident techs that is was not antique status and that only the first 350 are considered antique in Canada.

Hey was that the one sold at Rock Island Auction a couple months back? I was looking at that lot.

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/1038/2244

How was the import process from the states? Do you have to pass the background check for the non-antique ones in the states, or did they ship it to an exporter for you?