1903 R.I.A. Springfield

DANCESWITHEMPTIES

DANCESWITHEMPTIES

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Somebody just paid close to $1500 on a low serial numbered 1903 Rock Island Arsenal rifle. I'm not posting to b!tch about the price; only to make note to the purchaser, if here, to at least do a D.V.I. of the receiver & to make them aware of the improper heat treatment of the receiver. I have purchased low number receivers on this site with cracking (thats why I purchased them), it does happen. I'm not saying it came from a standard or low pressure round, only that it indeed will & has happened to some of these receivers. Know what you have bought & if you do decide to shoot it, IMO, stick to a standard or a low pressure load... Responsibility is yours & yours only.

I'll step down from the soapbox now...
 
I would buy an excellent low numbers '03 purely as a non-shooter- if you're an '03 collector you can hardly disregard everything prior to the cutoff. However, shooting them is a non-starter. The odds of one failing are, on the surface, not huge, but are orders of magnitude higher than for other popular types- for many of which it's almost impossible to find bona-fide documentation of even a single failure of a mechanically sound gun using standard ammunition. Hatchers Notebook is definitely worth owning for the discussion of the low number '03's and lots of other things like headspacing, etc.

milsurpo
 
Would there be any way to non-destructively test a low number receiver?

Could a suspect receiver be reheat treated? Hatcher's notebook does have the steel composition.

Be nice to recover some of these lower numbers.
 
ForgeMonk said:
Would there be any way to non-destructively test a low number receiver?

Could a suspect receiver be reheat treated? Hatcher's notebook does have the steel composition.

Be nice to recover some of these lower numbers.
Click to expand...

The characteristic failure of the LN receivers is to shatter due to their brittleness as a result of the heat treatment used. ND testing might reveal occlusions or cracks in the metal, but if a crack existed there is a good chance that the receiver would have already failed.

Several yrs ago someone posted pics of a LN receiver on this forum. It was in one piece but there was an incipient crack visible on the rear portion of the receiver on the rt side. At the time I recommended that it not be fired. When checking headspace on these rifles it is important to check that there is some clearance between the rear face of the safety lug on the bolt and the rear part of the receiver. If there is hard contact here the safety lug could take the 2 front lugs out of contact with the lug seats and lead to a failure as all of the pressure would be taken by the safety lug.

Most of the old straight handled bolts were also of the single heat treatment type. I personally avoid shooting a rifle with one of them.

The old low numbers have been around for 100 yrs now and the debate over their safety has gone on for all that time. The smart money on safety is to avoid shooting them. They should be reserved as a curio/collector's piece only IMHO.

I've got a Remington M1903 receiver with a cracked ring. These were made with high strength moly steels, but obviously could fail too. Ditto with an M1 Garand receiver which is made to a high standard. One quick and dirty way to check for a cracked receiver is to suspend it and give it a tap with a plastic screwdriver handle. It should ring like a tuning fork. If the sound is a dull thud, investigate further before shooting it. A receiver can be immersed in gasoline of a solvent to detect a crack. The liquid will evaporate from the surface, but will remain in the crack after the surface has dried.
 
Thanks for the response.

I didn't know the safety lug doesn't bear any load during normal firing (Although I guess that's why it's called a safety lug and not just a lug). Looking at my K98, I'm also noticing no bluing wear on the safety lug. Neat.

So it sounds like there is no non destructive way to determine if a receiver has improper heat treatment and the potential for cracking. The tests only determine whether there are existing cracks.
 
The other "Springfields" to be aware of are the 03A3 clones marked "Santa Fe" or "National Ordnance " on the receiver ring. These are made with civilian cast receivers and US GI parts. The receivers are of variable quality and there are numerous documented incidents of receiver failure. Some apparently are OK, but there's no way of knowing.

I bought one as a parts source and found it had excessive headspace with noticeable set back of the lug seats even though it had been fired very little. The parts live on in other rifles, but the receiver will get a whack with a 2 lb hammer to see what happens. It will never be used again.
 
"Hatcher's Notebook" is a must for any serious shooter/collector of military small arms.

Once in a while you hear someone pontificating on the need for the .45 ACP (and other semi-auto calibres) to headspace on the case mouth. I refer them to "Hatcher's Notebook" where he talks about shooting .380 (9mm Kurtz) ammo in P-08s. The extractor in most semi-auto pistols holds the cartridge secure enough for the firing pin to strike the primer.
The cartridges did not generate sufficient pressure to operate the action, necessitating hand operation to extract/eject.

Charles Petty, a gun writer for "Handloader" magazine gets periodic reports from a friend that gets one hole groups fired from a 1911 in a ransom rest. Not a big deal until he points out that his brass consists of "range pick ups", a mix of every imaginable type and manufacture. So much for that myth ....

milsurpo said:
Hatchers Notebook is definitely worth owning for the discussion of the low number '03's and lots of other things like headspacing, etc.

milsurpo
Click to expand...
 
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