1905E Ross to 44 Mag

woodchopper

woodchopper

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so I have a badly abused 1905 Ross factory sporter. Barrel is done, throat is eroded to the point where I can drop an 8mm bullet into a once fired case.

I have on order a 44 barrel blank and I am trying to decide on barrel length of the final product.

Why 44Mag well the case head of the 44 Mag is almost the same as the original 303 same with the rim thickness it is almost the same so I should not have to do any alterations to the bolt or ejector. Now finding a solution for the magazine is going to be interesting but that is another topic.

Now the question is barrel length... I am leaning towards 16" that should make a handy little bush gun for short range work and work well with 44 Mag, and I don't think that a longer barrel will result in a lot of extra MV.

opinions.
 
What's the twist rate on the barrel you ordered? The ones on the Tom Denall Silent Destroyer are 1:11 and I think there's only a 9" barrel in there.
View attachment 420926
As for mags, I'd try adapting a Desert Eagle mag.
 
It is possible to cut 1905 pattern threads on a barrel. A member here has done it. But it sure isn't easy. Not many lathes can cut 3tpi.
Or are you thinking of using the stump of the original barrel as a bushing, and threading the .44 barrel into that? There isn't a whole lot of steel between the root diameter of the threads and the shank of the new barrel, but should be do-able.
If the rifle is a sported II** target rifle, the threads will be conventional square pattern.
See how a .44 case fits the bolt face. Will the extractor catch it?
The other issue is going to be the magazine, if you want something other than a single shot.

.44 barrels may have twist rates between 16 and 38. For pistol weight bullets, most any .44 blank would work.
 
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The Mk. II** has square threads. The other Mk. II rifles have the modified buttress threads.
 


Left side - Mk III with square threads
Centre - Mk II** with buttress threads. The vertical front face can be seen in the pic.
Right side - Mk II*** with 3TPI left hand modified buttress thread. Some might call it a modified square thread, but I agree with tiriaq's description.
 
B-noser - Thanks for the clarification. Either the Mk. III or Mk. II** threads would be easier to cut than the unique left hands 3tpi threads on all other Mk. II barrels.
Note the root diameter of the MK. II shank. If the barrel shank is to be converted into a bushing, and internally threaded for a new barrel, the new barrel's shank diameter will be quite small.

woodchopper if you want to try converting a barrel shank to a bushing, I have a shortened Mk. II barrel with a horrible bore. You're welcome to it.
Nice thing about a Mk. II - the barrels were intended to be easily replaceable. Remove the lock screw, and it should be possible to remove the barrel without difficulty. The barrel can be replaced by hand, and then the lock screw tightened.
Incidentally, a 1905E sporting rifle is quite uncommon. Is it really so bad that altering it is a good idea? There are sported Mk. II service rifles out there that have only nominal value.
 
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If that were my rifle, it would be going to Ron Smith to be rebored and rechambered to 35-303 Br.

If the chamber is also badly corroded, it would become a 35-303 Epps or some other version of the improved chambering.

Ted
 
I agree with tiriaq with regard to the root diameter of the 3 TPI Mk II shank. I restored a shot out 1905R by adapting a good military barrel. Same profile and an easy and cost effective job - once I found a barrel. That might be an option for woodchopper's 1905E, and it would more or less maintain the integrity of a fairly scarce commercial Ross. As I recall, the 1905E was also available in larger bore sizes, so a re-bore to one of those cartridges might be an option.
 
The mag will be an issue. I did a 1910 to 303Epps years ago. Made it a two shot rifle. No amount of screwing with the original mag (at least be me) would enable it to load more than a few. The mag is designed for the heavy taper of the 303Br. Straight wall cartridges quickly push the rim low enough it won't strip.

The other issue that might crop up, is that the 303 generally enters the chamber quickly off the top of the mag. The 44 is going to have a long trip forward across the mag, and might decide to take a wander.

If you do this a new magazine would probably be the best route IMO.

Just out of interest, and just for fun I cut down a 303Br and made a 44-40 out of it. Worked perfect until I seated a bullet. Case wall is too thick, would not chamber after the bullet seated. Also rim thickness on the 303 is quite a bit thicker than the 44-40, not sure the 44 mag.
 
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yes it is a 3TPI left hand butress threads.

I was thinking of using the barrel shank as a bushing but was not thinking of just how much meat I have to work with.

I do have a spare barrel from a cut down military rifle, but I have not looked at it to see what sort of shape it it in.

the 3TPI shank makes barrel changes very simple.

thanks for all the opinions now I have something to think about. If I don't do the Ross I'll do one of my enfields into 44 Mag. I've got a No4 stripped receiver sitting there waiting for a project.
 
W/C
Save yourself a HUGE amount of trouble and simply have the barrel bored and rechambered for .35 Winchester. (I have two factory originals one an R which I suspect yours is with the "buggy whip barrel and an E with the longer taper barrel and regular threads , R first3TBOZxKW.jpg). You have to rework the magazine metal at the front and I can send you pics and measurements of the correct animal. E second IMG_2666.JPG
Best
OGC
 

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I have a 1905R, ho-hum from the collector's standpoint. Well used appearance, fitted with a Redfield aperture sight.
Decent shooter, light handy rifle.
I also have a full length Mk. II service rifle barrel with a nondescript bore. Often thought I should get it rebored to .338 or .35, using the .303 case.
 
T/R
Have several R and E 05s. A couple of the Rs have so-so barrels and that one in (factory) .35 has the barrel cut down and a bulge about 6" back from the muzzle (sigh).
I have corresponded fitfully with a barrel maker out west (name escapes) who did not want to re-bore. Would have just had an engraver put ".35 Ross" on the breech and stamped in the serial with the requisite (2).
Alas time and tide so offered it up awhile ago on CGN but no takers.
a couple of pics.P1010030.jpgP1010033.jpgP1010038.jpg
 

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well the idea of re-boring is interesting, finding someone that is really interested in doing a re-bore is a problem. Guys that can do the work have so much work lined up and are not interested in taking on an old barrel that might just turn out to be crap.

the original barrel is 26" and the spare barrel is a military barrel cut to 22"

as for re-bore I think 338 would really be the smallest to clean up the throat erosion. 35 Cal sounds interesting, and some sort of improved 303 case would be easy for the bolt face.
 
W/C
Have a look at the .35 in terms of increased length (appro3/8") and your throat erosion. Remember that Ross produced this R in .35 caliber. So other than some massaging of the magazine sheet metal and the rebore you are fine with the original barre.
Finally, .35 Winchester is a Perfect deer cartridge and will reach up into Moose country quite handily. At 74 I look for the "Easy Button".
Contact me for mag dimensions and pics if you decide to go this route.
Best
OGC
 
Ron Smith has done a lot of reboring to various 358 calibers that I know of, everything from 35 Remington to 358 Norma Mag. The last one I was personally involved with was a 7mm Rem Mag to 358 Norma with a gain twist.

You might wait a while, but the rifle is not of much use as is, and Ron is a master at this work.

Friend of mine here has a 35-303 that works like a charm. The chambering is the original case, not improved, and it feeds like a fat boy at a buffet.

Having suggested the 35-303 Imp in an earlier post (#9), I just realized that the 280 Ross chamber base is much bigger than the 303 Br, around 80 thousandths, so that one won't work.

It's also and bigger than the 35 Winchester. Hmmm...., well there would nothing wrong with the 280 case necked up to 35 cal. :)

Ted
 
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