1910 Ross bolt question

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halhunt

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On an impluse buy with xmas present gun shop gift certificate in hand and wanting another piece of Canadiana (I have a 1943 Longbranch Lee Enfield No. 4) I recently purchased a Ross 1910 sporter. It's a sporterized miltary rifle, marked CRB on top of the receiver, barrel cut down to approx 25 inches, the bore looks OK, the metal is well used but the stock is smooth without a mark on it (?).

I've read that a certain amount of knowledge or if no knowledge caution should be exercized regarding the lock-up of the bolt. I've read the bolt should go all the way in and turn counter clockwise in the receiver theads when it gets towards the furthest position forward. It appears to do this. Also like to confirm the bolt stop should be in the up position when firing. Any input regarding the bolt or other aspects of the rifle is welcome. I have looked at the info on milsurps.com. Photos attached. Thank-you.

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halhunt said:
On an impluse buy with xmas present gun shop gift certificate in hand and wanting another piece of Canadiana (I have a 1943 Longbranch Lee Enfield No. 4) I recently purchased a Ross 1910 sporter. It's a sporterized miltary rifle, marked CRB on top of the receiver, barrel cut down to approx 25 inches, the bore looks OK, the metal is well used but the stock is smooth without a mark on it (?).

I've read that a certain amount of knowledge or if no knowledge caution should be exercized regarding the lock-up of the bolt. I've read the bolt should go all the way in and turn counter clockwise in the receiver theads when it gets towards the furthest position forward. It appears to do this. Also like to confirm the bolt stop should be in the up position when firing. Any input regarding the bolt or other aspects of the rifle is welcome. I have looked at the info on milsurps.com. Photos attached. Thank-you.

ross005.jpg


ross006.jpg



ross004.jpg


ross001.jpg
Click to expand...
Yes you are right, the bolt lugs will turn counter clockwise when the bolt is pushed fully foward. The problem is that when you remove the bolt and you take it appart, if you are not careful, you can put it back the wrong way then if you reinsert it in the rifle, the locking lugs wont engage in the receiver even with the bolt fully foward and the rifle can still fire so the bolt will be projected rearward with the risk of injuries. That bolt desing earn the ross a bad reputation,if the bolt is assembled correctly, there should'nt be any problem, i never had any problem with my Ross
 
Your bolt as shown in the photographs is absolutely corect and safe to insert into the rifle and fire. The Mark III (Model of 1910) Ross action is the strongest rifle action ever built. They attempted to destroy one at the factory but couldn't because they could not build pressure up past an estimated 125,000 pounds per square inch. Considering that the .303 round operates at about 42,000 pounds, I would think the safety factor could be suficient!

Interesting that you have uncovered another CRB rifle. Can you give us the CRB number or a good close-up of the stamping? Is your bolt also marked CRB, something else, or is it unmarked? (Marking will be on the rearward-facing flat of the bolt-handle, below the safety switch.)

Note carefuly that your bolt does not appear to have been "pinned". This means that it CAN be ASSEMBLED incorrectly into a dangrous condition. It WILL NOT get out of adjustment by itself; it can't. It requires human intervention to render a Ross unsafe. I am shooting an unpinned rifle which likely was sported at the same time as yours, in the same shop, and I am having no troubles.My rifle is marked PLY with a number, which we now believe to indicate use in the Great War by the Royal Marines Light Infantry out of PLYmouth. Your rifle, we theorise, was issued out of CRomBie and also used in maritime duty in the Great War following combat use by the Canadian Corps.

Does your rifle have 2 Allen-head scews (or tapped holes for them) on the barrel, about where a buckhorn rear sight would sit? Can you post a photo of the complete rifle? Is there a letter "N", about 3/16- or 1/4-inch high, stamped on the upper-left side of the chamber?

As to the bolt-stop, it is also the magazine cutoff. The 1903 Springfield works the same. "UP" is REPEAT postion, "OUT" is for emoving the bolt (as you have discovered) and "DOWN" is for using the rifle as a single-shot while keeping a full or partial magazine in reserve.

You can download a MANUAL for this rifle by flipping over to milsurps.com, taking out a (free) membership and getting the manual from the Military Knowledge Library. Go to the ROSS RIFLES forum and you will find the link to the manual stickied at the top of the forum index.

Hope this helps.
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In case you decide you ever want to start taking the bolt itself apart, you might want to read and save this for future reference... :)

There's an outstanding article by "PerversPépère", on Ross M-10 Rifle Bolt Disassembly (click here)http://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=298-Ross-M-10-Rifle-Bolt-Disassembly and the dangers of doing it incorrectly. It may be found under the Technical Articles for Milsurp Collectors and Re-loaders (click here)http://www.milsurps.com/content.php...esearch-for-milsurp-collectors-and-re-loaders forum of the Milsurp Knowledge Libraries.

Regards,
Doug
 
Thank-you to all for the info. The receiver is marked CRB 2870, the bolt is marked 1113 with "maybe" CRB above it -therefore a mismatch? There are no screws or holes on the barrel. I don't see the letter N stamped on the chamber. The stamp "NOT ENGLISH MAKE" is interesting.

I have little natural mechanical aptitude and if there was no internet with manuals and videos for assesmbly/disassembly, I would have a collection of parts not firearms. I didn't even attempt to take this bolt apart, I just blasted it with brake cleaner, the rifle was relatively clean when I got it, the barrel only was a bit dirty. I was aware this bolt is not pinned.

More photos:

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The bolt looks fine as is. However, you should satisfy yourself that it is safe by observing it rotating as it goes forward into battery...

Also, when fully forward, you can take a cleaning rod and insert and push hard against the bolt face. This will verify it is locked.

The rule of thumb...there should be the width of your thumb between the bolt head and bolt sleeve when it's going forward. When assembled wrong, they are right together.

I've had a couple of those CRB rifles.
 
Thanks very much for the photos. It looks as if we can add another to our short list of CRB rifles.... and another mismatched bolt. That is definitely a CRB number on the bolt.

Your rifle doesn't have the silly screws, and that looks like a barrelband from an MLM or some type of Mauser. I'll have to drag out some of the junkers and check. Interesting. I think likely it was fitted here, after the rifles were re-imported and sold.

Yes, your bolt is mismatched to the rifle insofar as NUMBER is concerned, but this seem to have occurred with quite a few rifles. I think it highly likely that the rifle was imported in this condition following reproof/rebuild/sportering at Birmingham..... at which time it would have been GAUGED correctly. The significance of the PLY and CRB (and possibly the PHAB) numbers has only manifested itself in the last few months. These rifles have stood silent regarding their War service for more than 65 years now and it is only now that it is being sorted out.

Your little crown and BM indicates that the rifle was refurbed and reproofed at Birmingham, same as mine. The NOT ENGLISH MAKE was required under British law to be stamped on all foreign-made firearms prior to their sale or export. They tended to keep it small, so as not to alarm the customers, each and every one of whom knew full well that only an ENGLISH rifle was any good. ;-)

You have an interesting chunk of Canadiana, friend, as well as a functioning specimen of one of the finest rifles ever built, anywhere..... AND it has a heavy barrel. You certainly will be able to have some fun with this old girl!

Welcome to the Wonderful World of Ross Rifles!
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Thanks again. I took it to the range yesterday and it functioned fine but the front barrel band came loose and off after 5 shots and before I could get it sighted in. The barrel band screw is in bad shape but I tightened it for the next time out. Also the "LC" marking may actually mean large chamber because the bore seems much bigger than my 43 LE no 4 that I cleaned at the same.
 
LC refers to the chamber being reamed oversized, in a misguided attempt to reduce sticking cases and jamming. Nothing to do with the bore. The fired cases will likely be quite different in appearance, compared with the ones fired in a Lee Enfield, let alone in an unaltered service or sporting rifle.
 
Here's somes pics of my 1910 Ross, the stock has no deep scratch but finish was gone so i refinished with 2 coat of stain and 4 coat of antique oil finish.
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What mean those marking?
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The barrel band appear to be the right type but shame that the rear hanguard was removed,can they be found somewhere? The bolt is not riveted so can be assembled the wrong way, as a note, when the bolt is removed from the rifle, the bolt head can be rotate the wrong way only if the extractor is removed from the bolt. With the proper maintenance, the Ross is a real beauty:)
 
The Dominion of Canada proof mark was applied only after the rifle had passed a Prooffiring test. It was to the same standards as a London or Birmingham proof and the marking was regarded as equal to either of those under British law. This is why some American-built rifles purchased for British Service in the Great War will be found with the DCP-crossed-flags marking; some were proofed here, at Quebec City, while Canadian Inspectors travelled to the States and inspected and proofed others right at the American factories.

Hope this helps.
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