1911 tests - enough to make TDC's head explode.

Clobbersauras

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Found this on another forum while doing some surfing regarding the 1911...I should preface by saying that I'm a fan of the Glock - I just shoot the 1911 better.


Larry Vickers

Sand Test
Just had a chance to do a harsh sand test on few different handguns. This test was not scientific but was very enlightening.

Pistols tested were; HK USP Tactical
Customized 1911
rack grade GI 1911
Glock 21

Test consisted of placing each pistol loaded in a Bianchi GI field holster inside a plastic bag with approx 2 cups of fine/medium grit sand ( North Carolina type). Then the bag was shaken vigorously for 10 seconds while holding onto the pistol butt for safety. The pistol was then taken out and 3 mags were fired through the 1911 and 2 fully loaded mags were fired through the HK and Glock - roughly the same amount of ammo. The sand coverage was very good and uniformly covered the pistols. The pistols were loaded in the mode you would expect in a field environment - condition 3 for the 1911, loaded for the Glock and loaded in DA mode for the USP.A test was done dry and lubed with TW 25B. This test represented EXTREME sand conditions - not normal field use, even in sandy conditions.A brief rundown of the results follow;

1)Carrying your gun dry in this environment is a NO GO despite what some will say. All pistols performed worse dry than lubed.

2)All pistols required some manipulation in order to fire - none would function normally straight out of the holster.

3)Overall the HK USP performed the best - the performance of it dry was roughly the same as the customized 1911 but was definately the best lubed. Overall it performed well.

4)The custom 1911 was second - interestingly enough the trigger track was not a real problem - the sand that went in through the ejection port to the bottom lugs area caused the most problems. Once the sand shifted in this area the pistol functioned better.

5)The rack grade GI 1911 was a distant third - the custom 1911 had an 18 pound recoil spring and that helped with feeding greatly vs the rack grade gun. Swap out the recoil spring and it probably would have done better.

6)The shocker of the day - the Glock 21 FAILED terribly. The big problem was failure of the trigger to reset. Also at times the pistol would not fire due to sand in the trigger mechanism. The dry test could not even be completed with the Glock due to this.This surprised all of us as we expected the Glock to do quite well.

Moral of the story; The 1911, even in its customized mode, can get the job done if you set it up to succeed. Lube it right, carry it in the right holster and in the proper mode, and it won't let you down - just like it hasn't for nearly a 100 years.

The HK USP series are good guns - well designed and well made - for service pistols. The ergonomics hurt the pistol dramatically but for an out of the box service pistol/field gun, they get my endorsement.

The Glock 21 is a dog - always has been. It has the rep of being the worst gun Glock makes. I have a Glock 17 and 19 and like them for what they are - but don't get sucked into the Glock hype - they are not magical guns. Remember what your dad said when you were in 3rd grade; don't believe everything you read.

Hope you guys got something out of this - I did.

Larry Vickers

Here's another link to some 1911 tests:
ht tp://www.advancedtactical.com/sweeneyarticle.pdf


Let the fun begin.....:dancingbanana: (Just kidding TDC - as the official CGN Glock fanboy you have to expect a bit of ribbing... :D)
 
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1- being a big fun of 1911 and especially for metal framed pistols, I expect what's happened in the test before I read the whole thing.
2- really enjoyed the title of the thread....LOL
3- I never had a Glock in my wish list!
 
What would have been really funny is if they tested a norc 1911 and it performed better then the Glock. That would really make the Glock crowed unhappy.
 
I own a 1911, I own a Sig P226, and I own a glock17, I shoot the glock the best. Seeing how I dont plan on visiting the SAHARA any time soon,or putting my GLOCK in a bag full of sand. I am not too concerned about the reliability of my glock. Under normal range conditions, it functions flawlessly, I have never had a single FTF FTE etc!
 
I own a 1911, I own a Sig P226, and I own a glock17, I shoot the glock the best. Seeing how I dont plan on visiting the SAHARA any time soon,or putting my GLOCK in a bag full of sand. I am not too concerned about the reliability of my glock. Under normal range conditions, it functions flawlessly, I have never had a single FTF FTE etc!

But you never know when a sand storm might blow through the range:D
 
Clobbersaurus,

No offense taken. Keep in mind Mr. Vickers has a dog in the race, he markets his own line of 1911's so take it for what its worth. I watched the 1911 video that IM_luger posted a few days back. The 1911 choked readily and that was at the range under ideal conditions. Say what you will. I'll take a high capacity light weight, "point and pull" simple design Glock anyday. On a side note, there is that infamous Glock 21 torture test from AR15.com online as well. Atleast that test has photo and video to back it up.

TDC :)
 
My Colt is like my GF...Stunning, crisp,tight, amazing lines and make the call when she goes bang.

My G22 is like the woman before the her. Great lines, a little dark and loose, always ready to bang.
 
TDC 1
Clobbersaurus 0

for the "dog in the race".

I have posted a link to Vickers comments here recommending Glocks in other calibre's, but not in 45.

Just for fun, here are photos and text of a test done which included the glock being shot with a 22. LOL.

http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90

What is better? Better is opinion I guess. But my opinion is that from what I gather most contractors with excellent SF/Mil backgrounds chose G17's when playing in the sand.


Post the AR15 test TDC.

They aren't asking "does this look pimped" or does it fit my hand.... They carried it because their life might depend on it. So I think that is pretty good anecdotal data to work with.
 
What is better? Better is opinion I guess. But my opinion is that from what I gather most contractors with excellent SF/Mil backgrounds chose G17's when playing in the sand.

If they're government contractors they have no real choice, the US Gov is a 9mm organization, so their options are limited (unless you consider the M9 a real option). Also the price of 9mm is so much lower than 45 in that part of the world that 45 is simply impractical to use for the "for profit" crowd (prices as high as $2, or more, a round). It has little to do with the launching platform.
 
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Oh for the love of God, can we stop this 'mental masturbation'...
The never ending....Glocks will still be working at, and after, the end of the Universe.
No..no...1911's are the the answer to man's prayers for the 'Slayer of All that Needs to be Slain'!
No one of a particular 'affectation' ( Glock, 1911...for the love of God, NORINCO) is ever going to convince any other 'non-believer' to forgo their 'pet' in favor of the opposition.
End of story...
 
Oh for the love of God, can we stop this 'mental masturbation'...
The never ending....Glocks will still be working at, and after, the end of the Universe.
No..no...1911's are the the answer to man's prayers for the 'Slayer of All that Needs to be Slain'!
No one of a particular 'affectation' ( Glock, 1911...for the love of God, NORINCO) is ever going to convince any other 'non-believer' to forgo their 'pet' in favor of the opposition.
End of story...

x2 :agree:

It's just liek the JW's that come and knock on your door..... They ain't gonna change my mind & I ain't gonna change theirs.......
 
Like I've posted before. If your pistol is a toy then it doesn't matter whether or not its reliable and simple to operate. If your life depends on it, well, we all know who wins that one.

TDC
 
Like I've posted before. If your pistol is a toy then it doesn't matter whether or not its reliable and simple to operate. If your life depends on it, well, we all know who wins that one.

TDC

who? someone with real world experience or some wannabe who has taken some courses and then thinks he is the end all be all of a tactical god.... ??

larry vickers has served on DELTA FORCE, he has as much invested in 1911 as he does for HK so I will take the above article as truth as far as his experience and the conditions simulated go.... would I ever shovel sand on my pistol, no..... but I am not a god.
 
who? someone with real world experience or some wannabe who has taken some courses and then thinks he is the end all be all of a tactical god.... ??

larry vickers has served on DELTA FORCE, he has as much invested in 1911 as he does for HK so I will take the above article as truth as far as his experience and the conditions simulated go.... would I ever shovel sand on my pistol, no..... but I am not a god.

I'm not discrediting the man, he has been and has done. The fact remains, he's in business now to make money. Will his 1911's or any well maintained and/or tuned 1911 do the job? You bet! Reliability aside, the 1911 is an ancient design that has been far surpassed. There are still too many negatives in the 1911 platform that have been rectified by more modern designs.

TDC

ETA: I do believe its SFOD-D or Special Forces Operational Detachment- Delta. Delta Force is the unit Chuck Norris served in.
 
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TDC knows I'm just doing this for fun. He also knows that I believe the 1911 must be worked on, and worked on, and then worked on some more to be anywhere near the level of reliability enjoyed by Glock or Sig. Then they have to be maintained.

Redleg (of TSE fame) posted a great statement about pistol brand reliability that has stuck with me. He basically said he keeps a couple of ruined glocks around just to remind himself not to believe the myth of the indestructible Glock. I tend to believe his word as his range guns see far more rounds in a year than most could ever dream of putting on their guns. He said there were better brands out there in terms of general reliability but I can't recall if he ever mentioned them.

Something tells me that Sig may be on that list...
 
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Then again if he is actually looking at the round count empirically rather than anecdotally. I suspect the glocks would get way more rentals.
 
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