1930's Lee Enfield

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ENFIELD1911

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I look on the EE regularly and it struck me today that outside of an early prototype I havant really seen any Enfields from the 30's. When did they lock into manufacturing No4s? If there was prewar production why don't they turn up on the exchange or did the Brits keep all there non war time production or better yet still in storage in a long forgotten depo just waiting to be discovered
 
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There wasn't much need to produce many rifles between WWI and WWII as there were tons leftover from the last war (the reason Germany ramped up production in the 30s was because they had to have destroyed most the arms they had from WWI). They mostly were working towards producing a better Lee Enfield from lesson learned in WWI (mainly improving the sights by making them more in line with the P14s). Things like the SMLE Mk. 5 were produced for trials and eventually we ended up with what we know as the No. 4 Mk. 1 Lee Enfield.

This is just a really rough look at it, I am not a Enfield expert, and I am sure someone who knows more of the history of the Enfield could add to this easily.
 
Most of the NO 4 started production in 1941. I believe they were still producing the no1 mklll at the start of the war until a factory was bombed.
 
There are plenty of SMLEs dated to the 1930's, but they are not really "british" per se. Ishapore made lots of 1930's dated rifles, as did Lithgow. BSA made lots in the 1930's also, but mostly for the commercial shooter's market.

The No.1MkVI rifles were also from the 1930's, FWIW.
 
They exist, as do 1920s SMLEs. However, the production runs were so low in the interwar period, that they are rather rare compared to other production years. For example, some records show that Lithgow produced less than 500 SMLEs in the 1937-38 period. There didn't seem to be a lot of demand at the time. You would have to look at the strength of the military in the 1930s to fully understand. There were few contracts for military rifles as there were very few who were using them. The production obviously ramped up in 1939. You will also see troops training with P14s at that time until production of the No4 caught up with demand.
 
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Claven2 said:
BSA made lots in the 1930's also, but mostly for the commercial shooter's market.
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Yes. It is interesting to note that BSA was the only British producer of the SMLE at the outbreak of WW2. They continued production until the fall of 1943.

We can also consider this: A lot of British rifles were lost at Dunkirk in 1940, placing a considerable dent in what the allies had at the time. One can imagine that these would have included "newer" SMLEs from the 1930s among other good condition examples all of which would have been likely destroyed by the Germans.
 
Thank for the info. I stumbled across the 1941 begining while researching B.S.A later in the day. I remember a late 20's SMLE prototype on the EE that had a ladder sight like a No4 so when did the No4 go into production?
 
Old Albertan said:
Yes. It is interesting to note that BSA was the only British producer of the SMLE at the outbreak of WW2. They continued production until the fall of 1943.

We can also consider this: A lot of British rifles were lost at Dunkirk in 1940, placing a considerable dent in what the allies had at the time. One can imagine that these would have included "newer" SMLEs from the 1930s among other good condition examples all of which would have been likely destroyed by the Germans.
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There are many pictures on the internet showing the French Milice carrying SMLE's, No4's, BREN guns, STEN guns etc. that were obtained from captured stores held by the Germans. I don't think they destroyed perfectly good weapons if they didn't need to.
 
ENFIELD1911 said:
Thank for the info. I stumbled across the 1941 begining while researching B.S.A later in the day. I remember a late 20's SMLE prototype on the EE that had a ladder sight like a No4 so when did the No4 go into production?
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The No 1 Mk V was made in I believe 1926 & 27. This was the forerunner to the idea of a rear aperture sight that the No 4 was based on. As stated before No 4 production did not really start until 1941.
 
lanshoka said:
There are many pictures on the internet showing the French Milice carrying SMLE's, No4's, BREN guns, STEN guns etc. that were obtained from captured stores held by the Germans. I don't think they destroyed perfectly good weapons if they didn't need to.
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The Milice wasn't created until 1943 so they may have had other sources. I have not seen pictures of SMLEs with them, No4s most definitely. I will google it tonight. That would be interesting. No4s were not at Dunkirk, so perhaps Dieppe? There is little evidence the Germans used them any official capacity anyway. One has to wonder though, with the thousands of rifles lost at Dunkirk, where did they go? The German designation was Gewehr 281(e) for the SMLE but that is about the end of it as far as I can tell. Does anyone have a link to a picture of Germans or auxilliaries using them?

I suppose that we can assume that many were deactivated by the retreating troops. Part of the instruction was to dispose of the bolts, after unscrewing the bolt heads and breaking the firing pins, into water. There might be caches of rusty bolts just off the beach.
 
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mr.e moose said:
The No 1 Mk V was made in I believe 1926 & 27. This was the forerunner to the idea of a rear aperture sight that the No 4 was based on. As stated before No 4 production did not really start until 1941.
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I think the sight idea was originally from the P13 and P14 rifles. They then did trials when they decided to stick with the Lee Enfield to get a easier to produce version which incorporated the better sights (and figure out what configuration suited them best). The end result was the No. 4 Mk. 1s (which never fully replaced the No. 1 Mk. 3s in certain countries).
 
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