1st AR, Thanks to CGN'ers!! *Added range report*

dusticles

dusticles

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Hey all, thought I'd share a pic of my 1st AR and send a broad thank you to everyone who took the time to help a noob out!

This was by far one of the coolest projects I've taken on and can see myself doing it again soon.


For a second it was hard to believe that this.....
arparts_zpsde007cd4.jpg


Would become this!!
ARNF_zps27925048.jpg



The Nightforce and rings are temporary. I'm waiting to get my hands on the new Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10x32 FFP but couldn't wait to see what type of groups it would do at some distance. If anyone knows of someone with the new PST in stock, please let me know.

Cheers
 
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Welcome to the club.

Be prepared to not have a lot of extra disposable income from now one.
Also, prepare yourself for the reality that this may be the only type of rifle you buy from now on. :p
 
Beautiful rifle , Makes me throw up in my mouth when i think about these things being restricted. I cant wrap my head around a government telling us that we can only use something so beautiful where they say. Damn that thing is nice. All the great caliburs out there now. Drives me nuts.
 
Thanks all, I'm definately hooked on this type of rifle. I guess I've always been a fan of taking something and making it your own.

So what I've put together so far is this:

Mega Maten receiver set
DPMS 24" bull barrel (1:10")
DPMS BCG
Daniel Defense 7.62 lite rail
Magpul PRS stock
Colt A2 buffer tube with Spike's ST-T3 w/spacer and JPS polished spring
RRA lower parts kit
Magpul MIAD grip

I shot the first 20 rounds using the Magpul back up sights and have since pulled the NXS from my 700P to see what this thing will do.
I found out that my eyes aren't quite what they used to be.
I'm 99% sure I'll end up mounting the new Vortex PST 2.5-10x32
Another thing I'll be upgrading is the trigger. Waiting for the smoke to clear before I drop money on a Geissele High Speed

It's a super soft .308. I thought the carbine buffer setup might be a little harsh in a rifle length system but it feels softer shooting than my heavy bolt gun does. No FTE's so far.

I have a couple boxes of 178gr A-Max's and have a few loads waiting for range time tomorrow. I'll post up some pics when I get home.

Here's a quick pic of the target I used to dial in the open sights at 50 yds
target_zps9819c1a3.jpg
 
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So I had a chance to get to the range this afternoon. I was in a hurry and forgot to bring my hand loads but had some factory match ammo with me.

I'm thinking this rifle doesn't like Nosler BT's. This is what I've been using for break in:
168gr Nosler Ballistic Tips
43.5gr Varget
CCI BR2
Nosler Custom Brass
2.810" OAL

100yds with the Nosler load:
Ballistictips_zps34bccfa0.jpg





Decided to try the Hornady Match bullets at 400 yds:
AR1stGroups_zps2ebfc8f3.jpg

Fired the sighter at target #1, 5rds at target #2, and had 3rds left for target #3


So far so good! 2.73" was the largest c-c spread. Hopefully this rifle will shoot the same or better after it's really broken in. Round count at this point is only 40
 
Hmmm.

Broken in ? I think you're past that now. Breaking in, as I know it, is a slow and meticulous process, and you would not have been able to fire that many rounds out of it thus far. At least the way I break in barrels. I'm still working on my latest build, it's only seen 40 rounds since Dec 21st when I put it together.

I've never shot 400y before. What's your measurements on the 100y groups ?


What's your measurement on the 100y?
And how big is that 50y target ?
 
I too was meticulous with breaking in barrels until I bought my last rifle, a Remington 700P in 308.

We've all read the 1000+ ways one should break in a new barrel for accuracy but I decided I was going to try a new approach. I was going to pay attention to how easily I could clean the barrel. I started my break in the same as before, shooting one shot and then cleaning for the first 10 rounds. Then I moved on to shooting 3 round groups before cleaning. I noticed after the second 3 round group that I wasn't getting the heavy copper fouling anymore and decided to push it until I had some type of build up. I shot a couple 5 round groups and was still able to clean the barrel without any effort. That rifle will still hold sub .5 moa groups hundreds of rounds later.

I decided to do the same thing with this barrel. I started my cleaning regimen same as always but I now watch for the point that fouling becomes minimum.
This time around it was this: Single shot x10, 3 rounds x5, 5 rounds once, and then I shot the 10 rounds at 400yds.

I'm not calling this rifle broken in yet because of all of the other moving parts involved. I'm still cleaning off the bolt and inspecting brass every few rounds. I was kinda sad when i noticed how rough these things are on cases...

Sorry, if I'm being defensive. It's just that I'm starting to think that extensive barrel break-ins are a waste of money and quality shooting time.

To answer your questions, the 100yd groups with the Nosler's were holding around 2-3 moa. Didn't waste good Hornady Match @ 100yds.
And the target I used at 50yds is something I make myself for punching holes with my M&P40. The smaller a-zone (blue rectangle) is 1.5" x 3".
I wasn't going for groups on this target, just trying to get my back up sights close while doing my 3rd/cleaning process.
 
Oh I see, yeah, same here. My new bolt first rifle I was soooo meticulous, but I don't think it mattered cause I was cleaning the copper wrong and botched it up anyway. It'll still give me great groups.

For the AR I'm working on, I compromised. Started with 5 shots, Cleaned, Repeat. Did that for 30 rounds, until, as you said, not lots of copper. Did 10 shots today, looks good. Will do another 10 to check for consistency, then probably start loading for accuracy. I'd bring it out 2wice a week to do that and don't bother cleaning at the range. I have 2 other uppers to keep me occupied so I took my time.

How I break in my barrel depends on what I expect of it. My other new AR carbine barrel, I just shot the thing. And my other other one is used.

2-3 moa @ 100 ? Ouch. My stock Norc M14 will do 1.5 with plain 180g Hornady SP's and IMR 3031. And that's about the best it'll do, I've tried more accurate bullets and got no better results.

Yeah, it probably just does not like that load. The bullets are probably fine, just not the load. Varget is a good powder, but it is slightly overrated, don't rule out other powders and assume only Varget will give you the best results. The numbers I'm seeing here on Quickload look good tho', so it should work for you. If you even have a chance, try 38g of 3031 under some form of 170-180g bullet at 2.73 OAL. I'd be curious to see how that turns out.

So is that an 8.5x11 piece of paper the 50y is printed on ? I shoot irons at 100 all the time with my 223 AR. Got 26 of 30 prone on an 8.5x11 today, probably missed the few when I shot rapid. Got 24 of 25 standing but on a much larger archery bullzeye. Not sure where I'm going with this, it's fresh in my mind so I'm just talking.
I'd expect the same out of your rifle with irons once you get it all dialed in, except for standing, it's probably a heavy mother', I don't think I could hold that still standing, hah.

If it were me, I think it's work on the buffer before the trigger . . . you're using a carbine buffer and spring in a rifle stock ?
I've done a bunch of research on tuning up an OBR AR for accuracy recently, cause as mentioned, I'm working on one myself, and it seems the buffer system can be really important.

I've experimented with a variety of buffer weights in my last OBR build, and found that the required weight can reflect the load, suggesting that there is not one ideal buffer solution.

If got tighter groups with lighter loads using the 3oz buffer. I got tighter groups with my mid hot loads using my 5oz buffer, but they loosened up at 3oz and 6oz.
Currently, I'm straight gassing. I'm looking into a JP adjustable gas block as a future upgrade, at which point I'll likely dial it to match the 3oz buffer and see how that goes. I have a carbine tube so I can't use their lmos rifle buffer. I'm also questioning if a Carbine buffer system is a bad idea for an OBR, no one else seems to use them for those kinds of rifles. I only have the one lower right now, and an currently far removed from building another one, so it'll have to do.
 
Ah yes, buffers... This somehow reminds me of when I started working on snowmobile clutches except no one advertises the spring rate of their buffer springs making it more of a guessing game. I'd guess this helps sales.

I spent a lot of time roaming the net looking for the best weight/spring rate combo for a rifle length 308. Well... guess it's not that easy. I found that the buffers around 5oz are the most common in AR-10's and such, so I decided to start here. Now for a spring. Like I mentioned above, no one advertises how soft/stiff their springs are so I figured I'd just go with a quality polished 308 spring and see where abouts the setup would throw brass.

As for comparing rifle buffer systems to carbine, I think it comes down to the spring. I say this because the way I see it if both the carbine and rifle buffer weigh the same and travel the same distance then the inertia and function will be the same. Sounds simple. When it comes to springs though, the carbine spring will be compressed more during cycling and would probably have a steeper spring rate curve. I chose the carbine setup because it seems to me that there is no significant difference and I wanted to have the option of going to a collapsible stock if I felt like it. Maybe cheaping out a bit?

Other than group size, what should a guy be watching? Brass is being ejected at about 4 o'clock and every round goes into battery without issue. I'm noticing some ejector swiping on the cases of hotter rounds. I worked my way up to 44.5 gr's of Varget behind the Nosler BT's and saw no pressure signs on the primer but the swipe marks were more apparent after 43.5 gr's.



Oh and that home made target of mine is 15"x20" (20"x30" poster paper cut in half). I bought the same sized sheet of foam core and cut myself a few jigs to allow me to just spray paint on whatever target style I feel like using for the day.
 
Yeah, it seems all you can go on when it comes to springs is their reputation. I got a Wolff XP spring right now, and am thinking of trying a JP.
The Wolff is an excellent Tac Carbine spring, but JP is known for their OBR's, so I assume they would be a good choice. Another name that keeps coming up is Tubbs, but I haven't seen any around.

5oz is a typical Rifle Buffer weight, so that makes sense to me. Carbine is 3oz.

I'm also under the impression that a Carbine spring is stronger then a rifle spring and not just shorter, as it has to resist a greater load with less length.
This would accelerate your stop time, and return time. Reciprocating Mass is a term that keeps popping up in the discussions of this topic, and it said to effect the accuracy. The impression I'm getting is a Heavy Carbine system has a greater "RM" and why a company like JP is trying to go in the complete opposite direction with their adjustable LMOS systems.

Ah, I'm no expert on this yet. Still trying to figure out the ideal OBR system myself.

I do know that the primer swipe is an early pressure sign. Seems you know that fact also.
Sometimes it's also a sign that your round pressure is exceeding your buffer system as your system is allowing the beginning of extraction before the pressure has started to recede. Timing is too early. I have a fresh set of brass that I fired hot loads out of, I upped my buffer weight to 6oz, the brass is showing a flattened primer but no swipe, whereas the same load shot at 5oz would show a normal primer and some swipe.

Your timing could be off, and if extraction starts before the round had finished firing, that can screw with your accuracy.
However, 4 o'clock is a good sign of healthy timing. From what I've read, brass cast earlier then 3 o'clock is a sign of too early timing.

Tweeking an AR sure seems to be quite the feat when going for accuracy. Seems between the Gas and Buffer system, there is more to consider then the precision bolt guys can do to their entire gun, hah.

Well, you have a rifle length buffer tube/stock. If it were me, I'd strongly consider exploiting that to it's fullest.
Check out the CRAFM sub forum in the dealer section if you don't already know about it. They sell the LMOS Rifle Buffer, Adjustable Gas Block, and JP Rifle springs.
I think that's where I'd be going right now if I had your stock, but then, I already have a high end trigger.
Honestly, I have no idea what a plain stock AR trigger is like, but based on my experience with other guns with crappy trigger, I think it'd be good enough to see what that gun is capable of if all the other ducks are in a row.

Really, I just have a thing for buffer systems right now, cause that's the point I'm at with my projects, so it's where my focus lies right now, hence why I'm talking about them so much. :p
 
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