2 hangfires in the same flat of shells...!!!

TReX300

TReX300

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My 12yr old son had his second hangfire of his life tonight. It scared the crap out of him. It was on his second shot of doubles. He pulled the trigger, I heard it click, he followed through on the shot and then looked at me kind of weird. He kept it on his shoulder for a couple seconds then took it down and was just getting it down to his hip and ....POW. Off it went. It really freaked him out. That was the second time its happend to him and both times it's been with a Federal TopGuns out of the same flat of shells. Actually he's only gone threw 5 boxes of it and after tonight said he's isn't even going to finish it. Normally he shoots our 1 oz reloads but he had won a couple flats of Federals earlier this year at a shoot and uses them when he hasn't had time to load. Has anyone else seen this with Federal shells? I saw it happen once this summer and it was from a flat of TopGuns that were won at the same shoot by another shooter.
I'm not trying to rip on Federal shells but in 20 years of shooting I've only seen 3 real hangfires and they all were this year, all with the same shells that were all made around the same time.

Tim
 
Hi Tim,

I have seen this with practically every shell manufacturer out there. This year I have experienced the same with a batch of Gun Clubs. You can usually find out what batch it is by reading the batch number on the flap of the box of shells and chances are the same batch will have others with the same issues. I have only found this to happen to the cheaper shells from Remington, Federal and Winchester. Usually the higher priced shells are of better quality and rarely have an issues with them.

Best regards,
Sam
 
I have never experienced or seen a hangfire in a shotgun shell ever. It would have scared the crap out of me too. I've seen other problems with factory ammo including STS and AA but never something like this. I don't blame your son for refusing to shoot the rest of the ammo.
 
I found with Federal ammo ( and I am no expert) that the primers were seated quite deep. With my old Browning superposed trap I had a few miss fires. I would pull the trigger and hear the "click" but nothing would happen. As it turned out the primers were seated deep, therefore my old gun and it's bottom pin (which moves down at an angle) would not strike the primer hard enough to fire the cartridge. The top barrel worked fine, but there is no angle on the firing pin.

Now people were saying get a new bottom pin, replace the spring, Federal shells are great....blah blah blah.....

The bottom line is I have seen miss fires and one delayed fire with newer guns other than my browning this year, (In fact one miss fire happened to a fella shooting a Perazzi :?: ) Every time it happened the person was using Federal ammo. Many guys at my club won't use it. Now like I said I am no expert, just telling you what I have seen this year, and you won't see me shoot Federal ammo again. Can't blame your son, but its nice to hear about a young guy doing some shooting. :D

Jacky



Jacky
 
I too have never seen or experienced a " hangfire" either in over 30 years of high volume shooting, I would suspect the gun rather than the shells as being the problem!! Broken firing pins and springs along with dirt would be where I would be looking!
 
Thats why they teach you, if you have a misfire, wait 60 seconds, with the barrel in a safe direction- lucky he didnt get the gun down, or turn
I have never had any trouble with Federal ammo at all, but you never know

Glad nobody was hurt, but I would email Federal with the lot numbers on the box, and tell them what happened
 
m12man said:
I too have never seen or experienced a " hangfire" either in over 30 years of high volume shooting, I would suspect the gun rather than the shells as being the problem!! Broken firing pins and springs along with dirt would be where I would be looking!
Click to expand...

Agreed

I have shot thousands of TopGuns with no problems and have never had a hangfire with any other shell (other than on a 3" 50 naval gun whcih almost took might right hand off but thats another story) but I have seen mechanical problems with guns that can cause the same effect.

You hear the click when the trigger is pulled which may have just been the sear releasing but with a broken hammer spring for example, especially if it is a coil type the spring may be binding and not push the hammer forward right away but with a little movement of the gun it may then release and fire. Broken or dirty/rusted firing pins can cause the same effect. These are rare events but can happen.
 
rigby said:
You hear the click when the trigger is pulled which may have just been the sear releasing but with a broken hammer spring for example, especially if it is a coil type the spring may be binding and not push the hammer forward right away but with a little movement of the gun it may then release and fire. Broken or dirty/rusted firing pins can cause the same effect. These are rare events but can happen.
Click to expand...
I've also heard of this happening but haven't seen it or had it happen to me. Is it possible that when it does happen Federal shells are more likely to fire than other brands? I know their pistol primers are more sensitive than other brands, does the same apply to their shotgun primers?
 
Claybuster said:
rigby said:
You hear the click when the trigger is pulled which may have just been the sear releasing but with a broken hammer spring for example, especially if it is a coil type the spring may be binding and not push the hammer forward right away but with a little movement of the gun it may then release and fire. Broken or dirty/rusted firing pins can cause the same effect. These are rare events but can happen.
Click to expand...
I've also heard of this happening but haven't seen it or had it happen to me. Is it possible that when it does happen Federal shells are more likely to fire than other brands? I know their pistol primers are more sensitive than other brands, does the same apply to their shotgun primers?
Click to expand...

Don't know Claybuster for certain about the Federal shotgun primers but it could easily be the case
 
Tim:

Glad it was a "safe" , (but otherwise unpleasant) experiance.

Have never had this happen with AA's, Fed. Gold Medals or STS's, Fiocchi,
Challenger or Kent.

Can't stress enough my disdain though, for 4th rate "Promo" shells, no matter
who manufactures them.

Like Claybuster says, and I'll paraphrase : Why spend thousands on guns
hundreds on memberships, gas, & everything else, then cheap-out on one
of the most important parts of the equation ?
 
hmm... teach him to have the gun in a safe direction for at least 30-60 seconds when that happens.

from your story it sounds like he was just about to either put it down or walk somewhere else :|
 
Thanks for the safety advise guys but he was doing everything by the book. When he was bringing the gun down he wasn't planing on going anywhere with it. I was one the same sqaud as him as was turning his head to ask me what happened when it went off. He's one of the trap kids at our club and is very safety aware. He sometimes reminds some of the vetran shooters at our club of minor safety issues they have.
I saved the hull from the shot and took a good look at it. What I think happend was the paper base wad was damaged either in the hull makleing process or the loading process. It was squashed on one side and the hole over the primer pocket was not much larger than a pin. I think it was covered at first by the paper and took a bit for the primer gases to burn through the paper before the powder ignited. I dont know if thats possible but thats what it looks like anyway. He hasn't shot anymore of them and hasn't had a problem since. Actually he shot his best doubles score last sunday with a 48/50 useing his favorite 1oz.
reloads for both shots. Normaly he'd shoot a 1 1/8 for his second shot which is what the Feds were.

Tim
 
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