This is great advice. I was really suprised as to how light the torque spec felt when I first got my wheeler fat wrench. I was over-tightening grossly before with just a torx key and my fingers. The right tool for the job sure makes life easier, and if not easier at least it is one more variable you can cross off the list as far as inconsistencies go.
2 inches high at 100 yards?!?!
- Thread starter greg11
- Start date
This is great advice. I was really suprised as to how light the torque spec felt when I first got my wheeler fat wrench. I was over-tightening grossly before with just a torx key and my fingers. The right tool for the job sure makes life easier, and if not easier at least it is one more variable you can cross off the list as far as inconsistencies go.
Okay, I shot some groups today, all of them were terrible.
Honestly, I shoot better groups than this at 100 yards using iron sights on my AR-15.
I don't know how to interpret these, as they seem pretty random.
It was pretty windy today, so I'll chalk up the windage variations to bad doping on my part, but shouldn't the vertical spreads be ALOT closer than these?
I know you can't quite see the primers, but there is a little cratering happening at 41.5 (Hodgdon lists 42.5 as the max, maybe I need to keep going higher?).
I was aiming at the middle left target, and didn't touch my turrets, as suggested! Middle squares measure 1.25" across.
180gr SMK over 40 grains H4895:
180gr SMK over 40.5 grains H4895:
180gr SMK over 41 grains H4895:
180gr SMK over 41.5 grains H4895:
Can anyone interpret these for me?
Everything is tight on my gun. The scope isn't broken. I must be just toally screwing something up?!?!
It does seem as if the last group is the best, excluding the flier (which I didn't call, LOL) it's 1.12"-.308"= 0.812".
The first two shots almost went in the same hole, which had me excited, then the group when for crap.
I'm also at 2.81 COAL, think I should seat the bullets a little closer to the lands? I have a TON of room in my magazine to play with.
I'm THINKING of sticking with that last load, but moving my bullet a little closer to the lands and seeing what happens....
This looks good you are working up a load from what I can see the last group is the best one , it is hard to tell from the pics if there is pressure but it seems good.
I didn't look up the load but try a few more loads with more powder and then once you have shot them compare them find the tightest group and play with the overal lenght.
You should have your bullet just touching the land for load development imo.
Ok I just looked and with a 180gr bullet hodgdon shows a max of 42.5 and they are really on the safe side so bump it up I can almost guarantee you will tighten up.
308's seem to group well when the pressures build and I have 3 of them and they all like near max charges.
I just had a look at my Burris Sig-Z rings. They are torqued to spec and as the OP mentioned they appear to be just touching on the very outside edge of where they come together. However, if you look on the inside where they contact the scope, they are still open a little.
@ greg11
I didn’t read the whole thread:
not to be an ass but ,looks more like fundamental marksmanship problems to me. You mention that you get better grouping with your AR, is it chambered in .223?, sometimes the larger the caliber/recoil the larger the error in fundamentals can often be seen., flinch, trigger snatch etc… how long have you been shooting?
group 1: perhaps not breaking the shot and the bottom of the breath in the natural pause and changing head position cheek weld (parallax issue) , trigger follow through
group 2: changing elbow position, head position (ie: npa, 3 separate distinct groups)
group 3 : perhaps not breaking the shot and the bottom of the breath in the natural pause and changing head position cheek weld (parallax issue) , trigger follow through loosing focus, discouraged .
group 4: breathing, trigger follow through
on a load development side , # 2 and 4 are obviously better than 1 and 3 but personally looking at the second group I’d likely play with this one a couple of times just to see if I was indeed changing positions I’d probably test out #4 some more as well , shooting only one group of each load can be deceiving especially when we don’t do our part behind the gun.
I didn’t read the whole thread:
not to be an ass but ,looks more like fundamental marksmanship problems to me. You mention that you get better grouping with your AR, is it chambered in .223?, sometimes the larger the caliber/recoil the larger the error in fundamentals can often be seen., flinch, trigger snatch etc… how long have you been shooting?
group 1: perhaps not breaking the shot and the bottom of the breath in the natural pause and changing head position cheek weld (parallax issue) , trigger follow through
group 2: changing elbow position, head position (ie: npa, 3 separate distinct groups)
group 3 : perhaps not breaking the shot and the bottom of the breath in the natural pause and changing head position cheek weld (parallax issue) , trigger follow through loosing focus, discouraged .
group 4: breathing, trigger follow through
on a load development side , # 2 and 4 are obviously better than 1 and 3 but personally looking at the second group I’d likely play with this one a couple of times just to see if I was indeed changing positions I’d probably test out #4 some more as well , shooting only one group of each load can be deceiving especially when we don’t do our part behind the gun.
Not to offend anyone who has posted in this thread but a lot of people are jumping to the conclusion that the OP is not a good shooter when in fact I think he is not so bad.
If you look at the groups he posted it is a clear indication he needs to find the right load for that rifle and he is almost there.
The last group minus the high one is about an inch or less ,I am a pretty good shooter and I can take anyone of my 308"s and load it so it will shoot in 2" but they shoot a lot tighter than that with the right load.
Maybe his technique isn't perfect but I think with a little more load development his rifle will shoot about 1/2moa by the looks of the groups .
If you look at the groups he posted it is a clear indication he needs to find the right load for that rifle and he is almost there.
The last group minus the high one is about an inch or less ,I am a pretty good shooter and I can take anyone of my 308"s and load it so it will shoot in 2" but they shoot a lot tighter than that with the right load.
Maybe his technique isn't perfect but I think with a little more load development his rifle will shoot about 1/2moa by the looks of the groups .
Just some FYI, I don't flinch and I practise dry firing a lot.
I had someone PM me that perhaps I should try working some loads up for 150gr, and then moving up from there. I bought some 150gr BTSP just to try out a couple loads on.
Next time I hit my bench, (tomorrow evening) I'm going to load my 180gr's hotter. I'll be heading North of 41.5gr H4895 in 0.5gn increments, and watching the primers. Hopefully I'll see groups tighten up.
Depending on my results, I'll know which projectile to stock up on in bulk quantities, I hope....
I had someone PM me that perhaps I should try working some loads up for 150gr, and then moving up from there. I bought some 150gr BTSP just to try out a couple loads on.
Next time I hit my bench, (tomorrow evening) I'm going to load my 180gr's hotter. I'll be heading North of 41.5gr H4895 in 0.5gn increments, and watching the primers. Hopefully I'll see groups tighten up.
Depending on my results, I'll know which projectile to stock up on in bulk quantities, I hope....
Greg11 if you want to play around with this gun for target try some 155gr SMK's they have a good bc and are easy to make shoot .
Do you know what the twist rate is in your gun I think it should stabilize the 180's so don't give up on them just yet best of luck.
Do you know what the twist rate is in your gun I think it should stabilize the 180's so don't give up on them just yet best of luck.
I picked up some Hornady 150gr BTSP projectiles.
I fired at 100m and printed a 5 shot group that measured 1" center to center. This is my best group yet with this rifle.
I've tried the 180 SMK's, the 175 SMK's Hornady 168gr BTHP and now H's 150gr BTSP...
All these expensive bullets, and I get the 150's to shoot great on my first outing. Anyone else ever see this? Is there just something about the 150 grainers in .308?
I fired at 100m and printed a 5 shot group that measured 1" center to center. This is my best group yet with this rifle.
I've tried the 180 SMK's, the 175 SMK's Hornady 168gr BTHP and now H's 150gr BTSP...
All these expensive bullets, and I get the 150's to shoot great on my first outing. Anyone else ever see this? Is there just something about the 150 grainers in .308?
Okay....Please read my last.
I'm printing AWESOME groups with the 150gr Hornady BTSP. 5 shots, 1" center to center is pretty good in my books.
Has anyone noticed that their 1:10 twist rifle really likes 150's?
I went out again today and found tat the 150's performed excellently in my firearm. But everyone says 1:10 is "too fast" a twist for 150gr. The 150's shoot better than my 175's! Anyone?
I'm printing AWESOME groups with the 150gr Hornady BTSP. 5 shots, 1" center to center is pretty good in my books.
Has anyone noticed that their 1:10 twist rifle really likes 150's?
I went out again today and found tat the 150's performed excellently in my firearm. But everyone says 1:10 is "too fast" a twist for 150gr. The 150's shoot better than my 175's! Anyone?
Greg, work this methodically. You have 3 potential issues.
1. Accuracy potential of your rifle.
This includes the rifle and the accessories attached to it. You should remove the other two variables if possible to test if the rifle is capable of the accuracy you're looking for. You could buy a high quality match .308 round, like Federal Gold Medal or Remington Match to remove your reloading from the equation. Fire some groups, or better yet, have an experienced shooter fire some groups. Again, this is to remove the other two variables from the equation. If you don't have quality accuracy, then you know the rifle is the issue and you can follow some of the good advice in this thread and others.
2. Accuracy potential of your ammunition.
If, having completed the above and found that the rifle is capable of good accuracy with match ammunition with another shooter behind the trigger, then try it yourself. Go back to your reloads and duplicate the test. This should determine if your reloads are the issue or not. If the reloads are of inadequate quality, follow the advice found in this thread and others reference your ammunition.
3. Accuracy potential of yourself.
If another shooter has fired your rifle with your reloads and found good accuracy, but you are unable to achieve it, then obviously you have some fundamentals to work on, and you can follow the advice given here or from varied other sources.
Perhaps this information is obvious but it seems like much of the advice given in this thread is scattered and can easily confuse a shooter new to the precision world. Best to work at it methodically and determine which area is the major culprit and then your efforts can be focused.
Yours in tyranny...
1. Accuracy potential of your rifle.
This includes the rifle and the accessories attached to it. You should remove the other two variables if possible to test if the rifle is capable of the accuracy you're looking for. You could buy a high quality match .308 round, like Federal Gold Medal or Remington Match to remove your reloading from the equation. Fire some groups, or better yet, have an experienced shooter fire some groups. Again, this is to remove the other two variables from the equation. If you don't have quality accuracy, then you know the rifle is the issue and you can follow some of the good advice in this thread and others.
2. Accuracy potential of your ammunition.
If, having completed the above and found that the rifle is capable of good accuracy with match ammunition with another shooter behind the trigger, then try it yourself. Go back to your reloads and duplicate the test. This should determine if your reloads are the issue or not. If the reloads are of inadequate quality, follow the advice found in this thread and others reference your ammunition.
3. Accuracy potential of yourself.
If another shooter has fired your rifle with your reloads and found good accuracy, but you are unable to achieve it, then obviously you have some fundamentals to work on, and you can follow the advice given here or from varied other sources.
Perhaps this information is obvious but it seems like much of the advice given in this thread is scattered and can easily confuse a shooter new to the precision world. Best to work at it methodically and determine which area is the major culprit and then your efforts can be focused.
Yours in tyranny...
