20 Gauge Loads Rabbit/Upland Game in older SxS

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Glock4ever

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I recently picked up a nice Ugartechea SxS for upland to supplement my Rem 870 20G. I am not sure how old the gun is but based on the proof marks under the barrel it could be as old as 1973 (R1 code) so while I am fairly confident that it can handle most loads I don't want to split the stock/damage the firing pin or just be foolish with this piece as I really like it a lot and with the company closing its doors I really don't want to risk damaging the gun unnecessarily but I intend to use this beauty. I have a few 3" shells with 4 and 6 shot that easily fit into the chamber so I know the gun can handle it but I was wondering from the experienced fellows on the site if this is a good idea, I have only owned newer shotguns so I never thought twice about this before but with ammunition getting better I don't want to feed this gun a steady diet of ammo that should maybe just be left in my newer 870. If the recommendation is not to use 3" shells is there a load in 2 3/4" that I should consider? I like 4 shot a lot as I like how versatile it is but I am willing to use any other shot size. The gun has a F/IC choke on it and I like to shoot both rabbit and grouse with it and the occasional pheasant (when I can find them) and I know not to shoot steel through this gun at all but the only steel shells I have is for the 870 in BB for the occasional migratory hunt I may be invited to which frankly has not happened too often.

Thanks in advance for the assistance!
 
I think the gun will outlast your shoulder shooting a steady diet of 3inch rounds myself.
I personaly do not hunt Rabbit, but would have no issues with Federal brand ammo for your 20 gauge for Rabbit .
Thats me though... and great score on your gun.
Going to post a pic in the ''Show your SXS'' thread?
Rob
 
Is the gun marked for 3” chamber? I have a more modern Ugartegea that is chambered in 3” and it can take the abuse no problem. Trouble is, it weighs 6lbs and 20ga 3” kick like hell in it.

Not to sound condescending but, you do know an unfired 3” shell fits in a 2 3/4” chamber right?
 
This gun is probably proofed to be used with 2 3/4" ammo, not 3". If not plainly marked on the top or sides of the barrels, older guns like yours will be marked on the bottom of the barrels, breech end, with a number signifying chamber length. A "70" denotes 70 millimeters (2 3/4"), a "76" denotes 76 millimeter chambers (3"). The fact that your gun freely chambers 3" shells means nothing, chamber length is based on the length of a new unloaded empty hull before crimping to allow complete opening when fired. Firing 3" shells in 2 3/4" chambers will significantly raise pressures, perhaps above the maximum the gun was proof tested to accept and can damage both the gun and yourself. At the very least you will be putting a strain on the gun that it was not designed or built to take, parts can be damaged or break and the gun will quickly shoot loose and the recoil will go up substatially. You do not need 3" for the hunting you describe, good 2 3/4" field loads are perfect for upland game in a 20, 4,5,6,7 1/2 are all popular with the bigger shot used more for sharptails and late season pheasants and #6 being probably the most popular allround compromise.
 
dilly said:
Is the gun marked for 3” chamber? I have a more modern Ugartegea that is chambered in 3” and it can take the abuse no problem. Trouble is, it weighs 6lbs and 20ga 3” kick like hell in it.

Not to sound condescending but, you do know an unfired 3” shell fits in a 2 3/4” chamber right?
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The thing is that the shell markings on the underside are very unclear as to what length shell it can support. Basically there is a metric measurement that when compared to the Spainish Markings Chart say that I can shoot 20 Gauge shells - not very helpful. I wasn't sure if 3" shells were commonly available in 1973 hence my question about the type of shells I should be considering for this gun. The company web pages mention that the chamber is for 3" shells but I have no idea if this is just for modern guns or if there is a certain year that this occurred. I will probably post some pics of it to help you guys out in figuring out why I am asking this question. The previous owner mentioned shooting 2 3/4" shells only but even if he was shooting 3" shells that doesn't help me if he was shooting inappropriate loads through it.

As for your second question, I am aware that 3" will fit in a slightly shorter chamber but it is the webpage that is causing me confusion and I have no fired 3" shells to check the chamber with but I doubt I would trust doing that as the shell mouth may just compress going in. I suppose I could cerrocast the chamber but I think I would just shoot only 2 3/4" shells vice going through that much trouble.
 
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Ashcroft said:
This gun is probably proofed to be used with 2 3/4" ammo, not 3". If not plainly marked on the top or sides of the barrels, older guns like yours will be marked on the bottom of the barrels, breech end, with a number signifying chamber length. A "70" denotes 70 millimeters (2 3/4"), a "76" denotes 76 millimeter chambers (3"). The fact that your gun freely chambers 3" shells means nothing, chamber length is based on the length of a new unloaded empty hull before crimping to allow complete opening when fired. Firing 3" shells in 2 3/4" chambers will significantly raise pressures, perhaps above the maximum the gun was proof tested to accept and can damage both the gun and yourself. At the very least you will be putting a strain on the gun that it was not designed or built to take, parts can be damaged or break and the gun will quickly shoot loose and the recoil will go up substatially. You do not need 3" for the hunting you describe, good 2 3/4" field loads are perfect for upland game in a 20, 4,5,6,7 1/2 are all popular with the bigger shot used more for sharptails and late season pheasants and #6 being probably the most popular allround compromise.
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I think there are other numbers again so I will check the barrels again. I will post a pic of it. I am tracking that I don't need 3" shells but I have some so I wanted to be sure I wasn't going to wreck the gun.
 
20-70.
70 refers to millimeters and is the equivalent to 2 3/4 inches. This is the cartridge length that the gun is chambered for so no, do not fire 3 inch shells in it. An unfired 3 inch shell will fit in the 2 3/4 inch chamber but when it is fired, the shell will open up into the forcing cone and essentially make the forcing cone smaller, this will send pressure through the roof! Lots of people have gotten away with doing this but it is hard on the gun and dangerous.

Nice shotgun by the way!
 
Falconflyer said:
20-70.
70 refers to millimeters and is the equivalent to 2 3/4 inches. This is the cartridge length that the gun is chambered for so no, do not fire 3 inch shells in it. An unfired 3 inch shell will fit in the 2 3/4 inch chamber but when it is fired, the shell will open up into the forcing cone and essentially make the forcing cone smaller, this will send pressure through the roof! Lots of people have gotten away with doing this but it is hard on the gun and dangerous.

Nice shotgun by the way!
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Thanks! I really love the look of this gun. I did see that 20-70 in the circle but didn't think that had anything to do with length of shells as I had never heard of a 20mm long 20 Gauge shell (although it probably exists). I was kind of leaning to 2 3/4" shells anyway as I primarily use them for upland anyway but just wanted to be sure as I sometimes like to the occasional 3" shell - usually when I am shooting bad and I want to blame the eqpt instead of myself. :) I picked up a sweet leather loop sling, game bag and leather shell belt. Just need a pipe, derby hat and plaid clothes to complete the look. :)
 
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Nice job on the pictures. As shown the 12-70 is 2 3/4 inch shells. A chamber properly made for a 3 inch shell would be marked 12-76. I also agree that you do not really need the 3 inch shells for what you intend to hunt.

I preferred #6 shot for upland game, or 7 1/2 for smaller birds such as Hungarian Partridge. When we could use lead shot, # 4 dumped a lot of Waterfowl. As far as shells went, I had a chance many years ago to buy 6 cartons of Polish PAPER shotgun 2 3/4 rolled crimped shells, most of which were #6 shot when a surplus store went out of business. They cost me less than a buck a box at the time. I was still shooting them 20 years later at Alberta Pheasants from my 20 guage Sarasquitya.
 
Now that others have cleared up the issue of chamber length and appropriate length of shotshell, note that pressure generated, along with recoil, has nothing to do with shot size but is somewhat related to load and velocity. Best to understand clearly what your gun has been proofed for and to stick to that or less.

Your gun has been proofed for up to 12,090 psi
 
Just to build off old canvasback’s advice, the current manufacturer website isn’t reflective of what an old gun is capable of handling either. Like I said, my gun is chambered in 3” and proofed differently and is so marked.
 
I just can't believe people are calling your gun made in the early 1970s an old gun .. your sxs should handle modern 2 and 3/4 game loads just fine and the most likely Outlast you
 
As always, I appreciate the assistance you're all true gentlemen. I really love this gun - fondling it a bit too much. The funny thing is that almost none of the shells I possess will be suitable for what I want to do as the only 2 3/4" shells I have is the bulk 7.5 shot which I bought to practice with and some left over Remington 20 Pellet #3 Buckshot. LOL! I guess it is nice to have a reason to buy ammo again. It is a bit refreshing to go look at some ammo webpages to find a load that will match nicely to this gun. It was a bit annoying to not be able to quickly look at a barrel and not understand what I could safely shoot through the gun but it is never a bad thing to learn something new.
 
dutchhunter said:
I just can't believe people are calling your gun made in the early 1970s an old gun .. your sxs should handle modern 2 and 3/4 game loads just fine and the most likely Outlast you
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I am sure you are correct about the loads, I think dilly is referring to old as in model and not necessarily to the overall age of the piece as 1973 isn't extremely old (~45 years). Although if gun was actually made in 1973, I think it is in amazing condition.
 
canvasback said:
Now that others have cleared up the issue of chamber length and appropriate length of shotshell, note that pressure generated, along with recoil, has nothing to do with shot size but is somewhat related to load and velocity. Best to understand clearly what your gun has been proofed for and to stick to that or less.

Your gun has been proofed for up to 12,090 psi
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I saw the pressure proof marks on the webpage but without the correct length I didn't want to inadvertently increase the pressure by using a longer cartridge as was aptly pointed out earlier. I appreciate the tip.
 
dutchhunter said:
I just can't believe people are calling your gun made in the early 1970s an old gun .. your sxs should handle modern 2 and 3/4 game loads just fine and the most likely Outlast you
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The only thing that got called “old” was me! By dilly! Lol.

This gun is practically new as far as I’m concerned. However it was built in Spain during a time of upheaval in Eibar and before the advent of steel shot forced all makers to up their game. It never hurts to be careful.

I don’t hunt rabbit so can’t speak to that but if it’s ruffed grouse you are Refering to when you say grouse, you will likely have better success using the 7.5 shot, rather than the 4. Pattern density trumps down range lethality as grouse will drop if the pellets just go by them.
 
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Mount Sweetness said:
#7.5 will work just fine on rabbit and most Upland, with IC and F chokes, should work nicely
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I do use #7.5 but I find that I can get a bit more range with #4 and I tend to get less pellets in the meat as well which is why I like it so much. Likely I will carry the 7.5 in the IC and 4 in the F when I find a shell that I like.
 
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