200gr 45LC with CFE pistol

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brandon6976

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Hello all. I picked up some DRG 200gr hard cast bullets. I have a bunch of CFE pistol I like to use for a bunch of my calibers. I'm wondering if anyone has any loads using CFE pistol for the 200gr 45LC round? I looked at the hodgdon site. They don't have a 200gr load. They have the following for CFE pistol and cast lead rounds

180gr
Starting load 8.5gr -- 996 ft/s -- 9,000 PSI
Maximum Load 10.2 -- 1,200 ft/s -- 13,700 PSI

215gr
Starting load 8.2gr -- 919 ft/s -- 10,100 PSI
Maximum Load 9.5gr --1,037 ft/s -- 12,400 PSI

I like to load stuff a little warm. not looking to go over recommendations or make any type of "ruger" load but I usually load to the higher end of the hodgdon recommendations. Just looking at the max loads of the 180gr and 215gr I'm thinking loading the 200gr with CFE pistol around 9.8 should be good? Curious if anyone has any advice, it would be much appreciated as I'm relatively new to reloading.
 
I wouldn't go that high at all. That's a pretty big jump in charge weight, and since there not a lot of data out there start low and work up. May take a bit of trial and error but I'm sure you could make something work. From what I understand about CFE pistol it fills the case a lot and that could be the issue depending on the length they recommend. Whenever your heading into uncharted territories cross-reference and keep it on the low side in the beginning. Getting a good shooting load out of the gate is awesome, but you only really get one face and a couple of hands in life.
 
Agreed. Always start low. Even if there is published data. May 25 at the low and 25 at .1 or .2 gr increments. See what you and you gun like and can stand.
 
So just throwing it out there, what do you guys suggest? tbrwlf what do you mean May 25 at the low? Also CFE pistol doesn't fill the case much to be honest (even with the round in should be lots of empty space).

Would it be fair to say start at the max load for the higher bullet weight? For me it's hard to get out to a range where I can setup a chronograph and see what's happening. So if i was doing the 215gr that is published and I know I like warmer ammo I likely would start above 9 as if it's published to go to 9.5 no point in start down at 8.2.

Since when you go down in weight you generally have to increase the charge. I'd imagine if I started around 9.3-9.5 that should be a pretty safe starting point no? I ask as the heavier weight has that around the top so the top of a lighter load would in theory be higher (maybe 9.8ish I'd imagine).
 
I'd have to say it's ####s and giggles. I have nothing against why CASS guys or IPDA/IPSC people who shoot light loads, mostly for speed. However when I'm at the range having fun I hate shooting cowboy loads where instead of a bang you hear what I would describe as a "puff". As an example I had some leftover Wolf cowboy loads for 38 and my friend shooting CCI stingers (22lr) next to me was making more of a bang and sounded like it was coming out with more authority.

I'm not looking to make 300 win mag noises but I will openly admit that I don't fall on the side of the spectrum where people say "I don't need a powerful load to punch a hole in paper".
 
brandon6976 said:
Hello all. I picked up some DRG 200gr hard cast bullets. I have a bunch of CFE pistol I like to use for a bunch of my calibers. I'm wondering if anyone has any loads using CFE pistol for the 200gr 45LC round? I looked at the hodgdon site. They don't have a 200gr load. They have the following for CFE pistol and cast lead rounds

180gr
Starting load 8.5gr -- 996 ft/s -- 9,000 PSI
Maximum Load 10.2 -- 1,200 ft/s -- 13,700 PSI

215gr
Starting load 8.2gr -- 919 ft/s -- 10,100 PSI
Maximum Load 9.5gr --1,037 ft/s -- 12,400 PSI

I like to load stuff a little warm. not looking to go over recommendations or make any type of "ruger" load but I usually load to the higher end of the hodgdon recommendations. Just looking at the max loads of the 180gr and 215gr I'm thinking loading the 200gr with CFE pistol around 9.8 should be good? Curious if anyone has any advice, it would be much appreciated as I'm relatively new to reloading.
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You didn't say which firearm you're shooting. That matters because SAAMI 45LC loads still need to be safe in 140 year old firearms which are still in use. Some modern 45LC chambered guns can handle substantially more pressure than the SAAMI limits for 45LC.

Use the 215gr data for a reference point and work up a load. Starting point depends on what firearm you're using as much as anything. 45LC can be loaded to 44 mag pressures IF the firearm is capable of handling it. The firearm is the determining factor.

Use your own judgement - but if you have to ask then probably best for you to start close to "start".
 
jethunter said:
You didn't say which firearm you're shooting. That matters because SAAMI 45LC loads still need to be safe in 140 year old firearms which are still in use. Some modern 45LC chambered guns can handle substantially more pressure than the SAAMI limits for 45LC.

Use the 215gr data for a reference point and work up a load. Starting point depends on what firearm you're using as much as anything. 45LC can be loaded to 44 mag pressures IF the firearm is capable of handling it. The firearm is the determining factor.

Use your own judgement - but if you have to ask then probably best for you to start close to "start".
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This is what it all comes down to - if it's an ancient pistol, then Max is one thing, if a Ruger, Rossi M92 or the like, it's quite another.

Recommended Max Loads with that bullet and CFE Pistol could vary from about 9.5 to 13.5 grs. With no knowledge of the firearm, I'd therefore suggest 9.5 grs. "Pressure Signs" in the pressure range produced by 9.5-13.5 grs (~12K-32K psi) aren't in the brass, they're apparent in the firearm itself and are not always obvious, so the old "work up until there are pressure signs" is folly.

Once you have a safe Max established, then you can work up from the Min load, that would be about 8.5 grs IMO.
 
Andy said:
This is what it all comes down to - if it's an ancient pistol, then Max is one thing, if a Ruger, Rossi M92 or the like, it's quite another.

Recommended Max Loads with that bullet and CFE Pistol could vary from about 9.5 to 13.5 grs. With no knowledge of the firearm, I'd therefore suggest 9.5 grs. "Pressure Signs" in the pressure range produced by 9.5-13.5 grs (~12K-32K psi) aren't in the brass, they're apparent in the firearm itself and are not always obvious, so the old "work up until there are pressure signs" is folly.

Once you have a safe Max established, then you can work up from the Min load, that would be about 8.5 grs IMO.
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That's bang on - some of these old guns will be into dangerous pressures before the brass shows any signs.
 
brandon6976 said:
So just throwing it out there, what do you guys suggest? tbrwlf what do you mean May 25 at the low? Also CFE pistol doesn't fill the case much to be honest (even with the round in should be lots of empty space).

Would it be fair to say start at the max load for the higher bullet weight? For me it's hard to get out to a range where I can setup a chronograph and see what's happening. So if i was doing the 215gr that is published and I know I like warmer ammo I likely would start above 9 as if it's published to go to 9.5 no point in start down at 8.2.

Since when you go down in weight you generally have to increase the charge. I'd imagine if I started around 9.3-9.5 that should be a pretty safe starting point no? I ask as the heavier weight has that around the top so the top of a lighter load would in theory be higher (maybe 9.8ish I'd imagine).
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fast fingers. slow brain. Make 25 rounds. Sorry.
 
Beater said:
because he wants to. why not should be the answer
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At least I'm not the only fudd lol. Anyhow guys thanks for all the replies, I've gone with a couple of the higher end loads. My guns are all newer modern guns. I love the old style guns but love to shoot so I am using the Marlin 1894 for a lever gun on my 45lc and I have a pedersoli rolling block (very strong action) that is a new reproduction.

Again nothing against if people want light loads. I am going to side with Beater that if someone wants to, why try and convince the person to get light loads, why not just get a slingshot, "save the grains" and just use a slightshot to knock over the bowling pins, paper or steel.

Anyhow rant over. I loaded up some stuff and went to the range. Nothing exploded and all went well :)
 
I've used cfe pistol in 45 colt, results were not that great, my gun gets much better accuracy with unique, however cfe has worked well in smaller cases for my
 
Hodgdon also has data for a 200 grain XTP jacketed bullet: 8.6 to 10.0 grains. Substituting a similar lead bullet for a jacketed one with the same powder charge will give you lower pressure. Depending on accuracy and/or leading, you want want to drop your powder charge a bit.

Nothing in anyone's published data for standard (as opposed to Ruger, etc.) .45 Colt loads is truly "hot". I would keep powder charges on the lower side for an actual antique, but if you want to work up to maximum with modern SAAs and clones, fill your boots.

Between loading for CAS and the conservatism of ammunition makers, what constitutes a standard .45 Colt load has been defined downward considerably. The original black powder load was good for 1,000 fps with a 255 grain bullet out of a 7-1/2" barrel.
 
brandon6976 said:
At least I'm not the only fudd lol. Anyhow guys thanks for all the replies, I've gone with a couple of the higher end loads. My guns are all newer modern guns. I love the old style guns but love to shoot so I am using the Marlin 1894 for a lever gun on my 45lc and I have a pedersoli rolling block (very strong action) that is a new reproduction.

Again nothing against if people want light loads. I am going to side with Beater that if someone wants to, why try and convince the person to get light loads, why not just get a slingshot, "save the grains" and just use a slightshot to knock over the bowling pins, paper or steel.

Anyhow rant over. I loaded up some stuff and went to the range. Nothing exploded and all went well :)
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I suppose you contributed to the light load comments by not saying which gun you were shooting. Light loads would be appropriate for an antique but with a modern firearm you could use the hodgdon max as a starting point.
 
jethunter said:
I suppose you contributed to the light load comments by not saying which gun you were shooting. Light loads would be appropriate for an antique but with a modern firearm you could use the hodgdon max as a starting point.
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Sorry but respectfully I have to disagree with that statement. There are "modern" Uberti's and Miroku 1873 toggle actions that are fully as fragile as their ancient counterparts...I have a considerable amount of gunparts in a box in my shop that will attest to this from repairing broken toggles and bent or broken pins (even an action that was relegated to a boat anchor with a broken rear pin boss). Most all of these repairs were made necessary buy folks trying to "hunt" their 73's with "hotter than Cowboy" ammo.

Of course the modern guns have better built frames & barrels so "bursting" from pressure isn't the problem...its the fragile "workings" of the gun that make it appropriate to pay attention to the lowest common denominator.
 
fingers284 said:
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Sorry but respectfully I have to disagree with that statement. There are "modern" Uberti's and Miroku 1873 toggle actions that are fully as fragile as their ancient counterparts...I have a considerable amount of gunparts in a box in my shop that will attest to this from repairing broken toggles and bent or broken pins (even an action that was relegated to a boat anchor with a broken rear pin boss). Most all of these repairs were made necessary buy folks trying to "hunt" their 73's with "hotter than Cowboy" ammo.

Of course the modern guns have better built frames & barrels so "bursting" from pressure isn't the problem...its the fragile "workings" of the gun that make it appropriate to pay attention to the lowest common denominator.
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Not all 45 colt chambered firearms have fragile workings. The Ruger comes to mind, and several others. But that's not the point.

45 colt is one of those cartridges that is loaded to different pressure levels depending on which firearm is the intended recipient. My point was that people who start a thread looking for 45 colt load data should understand why it's important to say what firearm they are loading for.
 
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