Phat Eagle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Fraser Valley, BC
Chonky!!!!
Guessing it is a piston?
Guessing it is a piston?
2023 shot show: Iwi carmel sa
- Thread starter greentips
- Start date
Looking at the outward design, I am getting massive Beretta ARX160 re-skin vibe.
Anyone else?
Anyone else?
Plastic is chunky and chonky because it needs geometry to create strength.
You can see that the top of the receiver of plastic guns are always taller than aluminum guns. The reason why plastic guns always have more distance between bore axis and optic axis.
You can see that the top of the receiver of plastic guns are always taller than aluminum guns. The reason why plastic guns always have more distance between bore axis and optic axis.
jonnyboy1014
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- 82.5018° N, 62.3481° W
Some of you are the biggest wet blankets. My lord...
CamparyTon
Member
- Location
- Dans mon veilles masion
Just make an NR version and IWI will have my money.
TimberWolf_3063
CGN Regular
- Location
- Victoria, B. C.
...is it just me, or did they un-bullpup the Tavor7, shrink it down to 5.56, and sell it? I mean, the short-stroke piston system is the same, and looking at this thing, I get strong Bren 2 vibes, but I can SEE several small parts that are straight off the Tavor7.
Seriously, I had an enlightening email discussion with IWI USA a while ago.
The T7 has the OG Tavor funky ("wavy") styling because it started development around the same time. The initial response to the OG Tavor was lukewarm, especially WRT the trigger (and resulting accuracy, or lack thereof) and mag release - hence, modernizing it took precedence over the T7. However, the T7 benefitted from these lessons learned while still in development - and its improvements over even the X95 (45 safety lever, lock-back charging handle, adj. gas system, and full tool-less ambi) made me PLEAD with IWI to bring this into an updated X95 (call it the Tavor 5, or the Mk III?).
The response I got was that basically, the bullpups weren't as popular stateside (and of course, we are a fraction of that market), and most (but not all) resources were going into modernizing the Carmel and bringing it to North America - its "normal" black-rifle aesthetics are forecast to be a bigger seller in the vital US market (who have to be lured away from ARs), and we may benefit along the way up here. That being said, the Carmel is an export-driven product, and not intended to replace IDF service rifles.
I don't doubt it's a fantastic rifle, and I look forward to trying one - just doesn't have that same "battle-ready" reputation yet.
I do like IWI products in general - every time someone at my local range asks about them, I explain the controls, hand them a mag, and tell them to have at her. The overwhelming response is "easy to use, feels really solid, what is up with that height over bore?" So yes, ultimate accuracy - no. Will it still work after being run over by a truck? Probably.
Further to that (and this is educated speculation on my part) - the C7 and C8 get the same CHF barrels as the C9 LMG (just different profile). So, they are overbuilt on purpose, to take a licking and keep on ticking.
The barrels available for military-use (current or trialling) Tavors are 460mm and 330mm with a 1:7 twist for 5.56x45mm, and 508mm and 420mm with a 1:12 twist for 7.62x51mm. These are the same barrels available for the Negev belt-fed MGs in both calibers.
Since all IWI barrels are CHF and made in-house in Ramat HaSharon, ISR, if we discount specialized barrels (.300BLK, 5.45x39mm, 9mm, or longer civilian versions) - issued Tavors probably get barrels made for Negevs.
As a consumer, this is a selling feature - my barrels will probably outlast me.
If our future contains the Carmel, I will happily give it an honest evaluation, because even at a high price point I know I'm getting quality.
If we are left with what is in-country now, I can only recommend to bullpup-non-enthusiasts that they similarly give them an honest shake - because of the limited options up here, they are probably one of the best.
As always, YMMV.
Seriously, I had an enlightening email discussion with IWI USA a while ago.
The T7 has the OG Tavor funky ("wavy") styling because it started development around the same time. The initial response to the OG Tavor was lukewarm, especially WRT the trigger (and resulting accuracy, or lack thereof) and mag release - hence, modernizing it took precedence over the T7. However, the T7 benefitted from these lessons learned while still in development - and its improvements over even the X95 (45 safety lever, lock-back charging handle, adj. gas system, and full tool-less ambi) made me PLEAD with IWI to bring this into an updated X95 (call it the Tavor 5, or the Mk III?).
The response I got was that basically, the bullpups weren't as popular stateside (and of course, we are a fraction of that market), and most (but not all) resources were going into modernizing the Carmel and bringing it to North America - its "normal" black-rifle aesthetics are forecast to be a bigger seller in the vital US market (who have to be lured away from ARs), and we may benefit along the way up here. That being said, the Carmel is an export-driven product, and not intended to replace IDF service rifles.
I don't doubt it's a fantastic rifle, and I look forward to trying one - just doesn't have that same "battle-ready" reputation yet.
I do like IWI products in general - every time someone at my local range asks about them, I explain the controls, hand them a mag, and tell them to have at her. The overwhelming response is "easy to use, feels really solid, what is up with that height over bore?" So yes, ultimate accuracy - no. Will it still work after being run over by a truck? Probably.
Further to that (and this is educated speculation on my part) - the C7 and C8 get the same CHF barrels as the C9 LMG (just different profile). So, they are overbuilt on purpose, to take a licking and keep on ticking.
The barrels available for military-use (current or trialling) Tavors are 460mm and 330mm with a 1:7 twist for 5.56x45mm, and 508mm and 420mm with a 1:12 twist for 7.62x51mm. These are the same barrels available for the Negev belt-fed MGs in both calibers.
Since all IWI barrels are CHF and made in-house in Ramat HaSharon, ISR, if we discount specialized barrels (.300BLK, 5.45x39mm, 9mm, or longer civilian versions) - issued Tavors probably get barrels made for Negevs.
As a consumer, this is a selling feature - my barrels will probably outlast me.
If our future contains the Carmel, I will happily give it an honest evaluation, because even at a high price point I know I'm getting quality.
If we are left with what is in-country now, I can only recommend to bullpup-non-enthusiasts that they similarly give them an honest shake - because of the limited options up here, they are probably one of the best.
As always, YMMV.
I had the same thought. If it's an un-bulpupped T7/X95, which I suspect it is, I want one even more. Despite the chunky appearance.
