219 Donaldson Wasp reload info

Johnn Peterson

Johnn Peterson

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
39   0   0
Location
Chemainus B.C.
I had pretty well resigned myself to the fact and satisfaction of a trailer to haul my quad as being my Christmas gift this year. Then I found a custom 219 Donaldson Wasp built on a Winchester high wall action with 10X J. Nertl scope, that I needed. With it came 300 brass, made from 30-30 brass, the dies and forming dies. Now that's a Christmas present!!:D I have a very understanding wife,;) of almost 40 years.
I have most of the newer reloading manuals and while I was thinking of starting out with the accuracy loads listed in the Sierra manual. Anyway, in addition in the meantime I thought I'd ask if there's anyone out there that shoots this caliber and has an accuracy load they'd like to share.
 
Thanks guys. I'm looking forward to 'playing' with my Christmas present.:D After some careful checking and measuring, in reality it's a variation of the 219 Donaldson Wasp. The measurements coincide exactly with those I found listed in the # 27 Hogdon Powder Data Manual on page 7.41, a 219 Wasp.
Thanks again for your info.:)
 
david doyle said:
That is some sweet xmas present! Please share when you get some holes punched in paper.
Click to expand...
Well, gave it the first run through and wasn't disappointed, although it'll take a while to get used to the scope, for me anyway. I met 303carbine at the range and after I got my s**t together and remembered the correct direction for adjustment, the last group I fired was about 7/8" @ 100 yds. It was sort of a 'prelim' load using some 'dollar 49 day' bullets I picked up at a local gunshow about 6 months ago. I call them 51 gr 'no names'. The load I used was;
- 51gr 'no names'
- CCI 200 primers
- 29.5gr IMR 4320
- PMC .30-30 brass formed & trimmed to 1.714"
- C.O.L., extenting the bullet out further than I'd like, 2.250". That gave me, as close as I could determine, about 0.005" freebore.
Again, for a prelim test, I was content.
There's newer and possibly better out there but the scope and rifle fit well within a certain era and I'm happy with the results so far.:) I plan to give my son at Horsefly my Ruger # 1V in .22-250 and hopefully join him for some Gopher shooting there in the spring. That's in addition to similar game with my Daughter & Son In Law in central Alberta.
I have a 'bunch/variety' of Hornady V-MAX and Sierra Blitzking's to test in preparation.;)
 
If you have not already discovered this, Imperial Sizing Wax is your friend when forming wasp brass.

Also, many Wasp chambers were cut with varying neck lengths, if you have any doubts, a chamber cast might not be a bad idea.

Welcome to the world of wildcats!
 
joe-nwt said:
If you have not already discovered this, Imperial Sizing Wax is your friend when forming wasp brass.

Also, many Wasp chambers were cut with varying neck lengths, if you have any doubts, a chamber cast might not be a bad idea.

Welcome to the world of wildcats!
Click to expand...
I agree with what you say reguarding "Imperial Sizing Die Wax". I've been using it for years and it's by far the best product I've come across. A little goes a long way and as my present tin is getting down I'll try and pick up another fairly soon. I believe WSS carries, at least I think I saw it in one of their catalogues so the next time I'm in the Edmonton area............
I also plan to follow through on your suggestion to do a cast of the chamber. A few people have made mention of the fact there are a number of 'variations' of this cartridge and that's why I was initially a little hesitant in buying it the rifle. On the barrel it's marked;
M Atkinson Streetsville
Cal 22-Wasp-
Part of the deal included 300 brass, formed from PMC 30-30 Winchester brass, made by;
Custom Brass from DKT Inc.
14623 Vera Drive, Union, MI 49130
And on their boxes, it is listed as 219 Donaldson Wasp.
Checking a couple of reloading manuals, ie: Sierra and Hodgdons, I see a few measurement variations, case length being the main one. In the Sierra manual, as a 219 Donaldson Wasp, the maximum case length is 1.813".
In the Hodgdon manual it's listed as a 219 Wasp, with a maximum case length of 1.7150". The measurements of brass I got in the deal 'seem' to fall in line with info from the Hodgdon manual. So, until I get a cast of the chamber done, going by what's written on the barrel, the Hodgdon case data, the measurements of the brass I have, I've decided to use the smaller of the case measurements available.:runaway:
Another part of the deal was a set of RCBS 219 Don Wasp dies, an RCBS 219 D.W. Form # 2 H, and a 219 trim die. Contacting RCBS, they tell me I also need a # 1 form die to form from 30-30 brass. That's something I'll have to consider down the line, but at present with 300 already formed brass I should be OK for a while.
I now see what you mean by, "Welcome to the world of Wildcats".;)
 
#1 form die is a must IMHO.

Also if you don't have one, an inside neck reamer is needed. The new neck on the wasp case is formed from the body of the old 30-30 case and will be thick when it comes out of the trim die.


Joe
 
lil gun

Give Hodgon Lil Gun a try, its going to put the IMR to shame, even though I am an IMR advocate, I use 52 grain generics and 55gr fmjs and works hot damm out of a 218bee and K bee
 
JHC-II said:
Give Hodgon Lil Gun a try, its going to put the IMR to shame, even though I am an IMR advocate, I use 52 grain generics and 55gr fmjs and works hot damm out of a 218bee and K bee
Click to expand...


Lil gun would be too fast for the case capacity of the wasp I think.

Have you seen some published data you can link to?
 
joe-nwt said:
#1 form die is a must IMHO.

Also if you don't have one, an inside neck reamer is needed. The new neck on the wasp case is formed from the body of the old 30-30 case and will be thick when it comes out of the trim die.


Joe
Click to expand...
I was wondering about that and in a follow up query to them I stated," Thank you. Something I neglected to ask, is neck reaming required"? Their response was, "Hi John, it doesn't show a ream die:confused: and reamer so they would not be required".
First of all, I've never heard of a 'ream die'. I've recently purchased a Lyman Universal Case Trimmer so I contacted Lyman to see if there was a reamer set up I could use on my trimmer. All they apparently have is an outside neck turning tool? Know anything about that type of set up? What would you recommend for reaming?
 
JHC-II said:
Give Hodgon Lil Gun a try, its going to put the IMR to shame, even though I am an IMR advocate, I use 52 grain generics and 55gr fmjs and works hot damm out of a 218bee and K bee
Click to expand...
As a starting point, I was planning on trying IMR 4064 but at the moment I don't have any. Checking the Sierra manual, they seem to have that as the powder of preference listed for most of their accuracy loads and hunting loads. Having said that, the exception was the powder used for the hunting load with the 50gr bullets, where their preference was IMR-4320 which I do have available so that's what I've started with.
I did check the Hodgdon manual but the only powder they list for the cartridge is H4895.
 
Last edited:
joe-nwt said:
If you have not already discovered this, Imperial Sizing Wax is your friend when forming wasp brass.

Also, many Wasp chambers were cut with varying neck lengths, if you have any doubts, a chamber cast might not be a bad idea.

Welcome to the world of wildcats!
Click to expand...
And the plot thickens. I've just come across another wrinkle. As I mentioned previously, the caliber designation stamped on my barrel is Cal 22-Wasp-. Quite a while back, I was given a set of P.O. Ackley's Volume I & II Handbook For Shooters & Reloaders. In Volume I is a picture and some info on the Donaldson Wasp. In Volume II is a similar picture accompanied by info on a 22 Wasp. 'This' Wasp originates from Australia and is based on a shortened & necked down 303Br. case. I had to try, but the rim of a 303Br. case is too big of a diameter to fit into the rim recess of the chamber of my rifle. WHEW!!! This 'Welcome to the world of wildcats' is starting to get somewhat nerve wracking. As/your previous recommendation, I have to do a chamber cast.
 
Johnn Peterson said:
I was wondering about that and in a follow up query to them I stated," Thank you. Something I neglected to ask, is neck reaming required"? Their response was, "Hi John, it doesn't show a ream die:confused: and reamer so they would not be required".
First of all, I've never heard of a 'ream die'. I've recently purchased a Lyman Universal Case Trimmer so I contacted Lyman to see if there was a reamer set up I could use on my trimmer. All they apparently have is an outside neck turning tool? Know anything about that type of set up? What would you recommend for reaming?
Click to expand...

OK, here';s what I know and you better research it to see if I know anything at all....:p

A ream die is very similar if not the same as the trim die. I don't have any so I can't say for sure. :) Anyway, the way it works is a reamer is used to inside neck ream the case while it is held in the die, kinda like threading a hole for a bolt.

I use a forester neck turner after the trim die to thin the necks. I then run them through the full-length resize die, fireform, and then run a neck reamer through the fire-formed case to true them up. Different brass requires different amounts of brass to be removed so get use to using you calipers and perhaps a micrometer. Here again, a chamber cast and some math will tell you how much brass you have to remove.

Different folks use different reamers and different methods. Research the topic and find the method that works best for you. Experimentation is cheap, 30-30 brass is abundant.

You didn't think a gun and some dies would be the end of it, did you?;):D

All in all, this is a very satisfying endeavour, if not tedious. You will learn far more about case prep and reloading a cartridge like this than you would from your standard run-of-the-mill cartridge.
 
joe-nwt said:
OK, here';s what I know and you better research it to see if I know anything at all....:p

A ream die is very similar if not the same as the trim die. I don't have any so I can't say for sure. :) Anyway, the way it works is a reamer is used to inside neck ream the case while it is held in the die, kinda like threading a hole for a bolt.

I use a forester neck turner after the trim die to thin the necks. I then run them through the full-length resize die, fireform, and then run a neck reamer through the fire-formed case to true them up. Different brass requires different amounts of brass to be removed so get use to using you calipers and perhaps a micrometer. Here again, a chamber cast and some math will tell you how much brass you have to remove.

Different folks use different reamers and different methods. Research the topic and find the method that works best for you. Experimentation is cheap, 30-30 brass is abundant.

You didn't think a gun and some dies would be the end of it, did you?;):D

All in all, this is a very satisfying endeavour, if not tedious. You will learn far more about case prep and reloading a cartridge like this than you would from your standard run-of-the-mill cartridge.
Click to expand...
I guess in my particular case, a saving grace is the quantity of brass that was included as part of the deal, 300. I'm old now but that's enough brass to keep me going 'till I'm really old. Your suggestion for a chamber cast is # 1 on the list of next things to do, very closely followed by your second recommentation of researching the process required to form/transform 30-30 brass into my particular variation of 219 Donaldson Wasp brass.
If anyone has experience or a good source of info and direction on this process, please give me a shout.
To all that have offered help & info, on this thread and in a couple of PM's, thank you very much and all the best of the season to you & yours.
 
Stonewall2 said:
" Twenty -Two Caliber Varmint rifles " by Charles S Landis published by Small Arms Technical Publishing company 1947 is a great book on the subject .
Go to your library and use the inter library loan system to find a copy.
Two good sites to find out more: http://www.benchrest.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=6
http://cartridgecollectors.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=1&sid=533795429af9570e5169664f82d68805

Glenn
Click to expand...
Thanks for the heads up Glenn. I'll check out the sites you've listed and see if I can access a copy of that book, or perhaps check into the possibility of ordering it through an outlet like Chapters. Thanks again.:)
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom