.22 Izzy Mauser dry fired too much!

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Beadwindow

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Hi Folks,

I took out this past weekend an Israeli .22 K98 with a Remington barrel that I purchased about two years ago. I took it out once before and had several misfires for one or two ignitions probably due to excessive dry firing in the past. This time I brought along several types of ammo and was unable to fire any of them.

A friend who was with me suggested that I get a reputable gunsmith in our area to remake a longer version of the rimfire firing pin so as to achieve a sure ignition. Otherwise he suggested that we'd have to cut the barrel, rechamber and rebarrel it........ an unpleasant option that would cost the greater part of what I paid for it in the first place.

Does anyone here know of any other options that I have to play with? Could the issue be with a weak firing spring instead, or some other common problem? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Frank
 
You are going to have to diagnose exactly what the problem is before you can fix it. Why do you suspect excessive dry firing? Are cartridges unmarked by the firing pin? Is there evidence of a light hit? Is headspace so bad the firing pin can't reach the rim?
 
If it has been dry fired a great deal you should be able to see an indent in the breech face of the barrel. If you can, that, and possible damage to your firing pin may be working either separately or in combination to cause mis- fires.

It is possible for a gunsmith with the correct tool to iron out the indent in the breech face to some extent and firing pins can be replaced if necessary. Or, he may recommend setting the barrel back a turn and recutting the chamber. Also, the point made to ensure the inner workings of the bolt are clean is well made. Check that a weak spring isn't causing it as well. If you don't see an indent in the breech face start with a thorough cleaning and then see if further work is required.
 
Hello Again!

There is a very light strike on the rims of the cartridges and what looks like a small indent on the breech face.

I'll clean the bolt thoroughly, though I'd like to know how to tell if the spring tension on the firing pin is too light? Is there any possible way to increase spring tension aside from replacing the spring?

Thanks for all of your help!

Frank
 
It seems to be a common problem with the Israeli .22's. I had to machine the firing pin stub on mine and was told by someone else that they had to do the same.
I had a post on this - I'll try to find it.
 
Beadwindow; That indent allows the cartridge rim to bend awy from the firing pin impact. If you examine a case that has mis-fired you should be able to see both sides of the case rim at the impact area curved inwards towards the breech face. That is perventing a solid enough firing pin impact from igniting the priming mixture in the rim. If it doesn't seem deep enough to do that start looking for other or additional causes. If the bolt has never been completely stripped and properly cleaned you may well have a combination of congealed oil, or rust which is slowing the strike down. I have seen Mauser bolts so bunged up with rust the firing pin could not fall all the way and no mark at all was made on the primer. No excuse for that as they are simple to strip and properly clean. As for the spring you have to make your best guess unless you have access to a tool that can measure compression load. My best guess (and it is a guess ) is that you probaly need somewhere between 10 and 20 pounds compression strength for a rimfire. Hopefully Guntech can jump in and help us both here with a more positive answer. It may be easiest to take it to a qualified gunsmith.
 
Slash5 said:
It seems to be a common problem with the Israeli .22's. I had to machine the firing pin stub on mine and was told by someone else that they had to do the same.
I had a post on this - I'll try to find it.
Click to expand...

Thanks!

That will probably be just the type of information that I'll need.

Cheers,

Frank
 
My old post looks like it has archived off.
I took the bolt apart and found that the .22 firing pin was a stub that the shortened mauser firing pin hits.
The .22 pin has a flange at the end. I chucked the firing pin in a lathe and cut a small amount off the inside of the flange, giving a bit more firing pin protrusion. Had to use a carbide tool as the pin was very hard. Only took a moment. Could probably be done in a drill chuck using a stone.
I've got pictures somewhere I'll try to find.
 
Slash5 said:
My old post looks like it has archived off.
I took the bolt apart and found that the .22 firing pin was a stub that the shortened mauser firing pin hits.
The .22 pin has a flange at the end. I chucked the firing pin in a lathe and cut a small amount off the inside of the flange, giving a bit more firing pin protrusion. Had to use a carbide tool as the pin was very hard. Only took a moment. Could probably be done in a drill chuck using a stone.
I've got pictures somewhere I'll try to find.
Click to expand...

Thanks again...... yes the pics would be most helpfull, since while I think that I understand what you're saying about the flange, I'd really hate to bugger up the pin!
 
stocker said:
Beadwindow; That indent allows the cartridge rim to bend awy from the firing pin impact. If you examine a case that has mis-fired you should be able to see both sides of the case rim at the impact area curved inwards towards the breech face. That is perventing a solid enough firing pin impact from igniting the priming mixture in the rim. If it doesn't seem deep enough to do that start looking for other or additional causes. If the bolt has never been completely stripped and properly cleaned you may well have a combination of congealed oil, or rust which is slowing the strike down. I have seen Mauser bolts so bunged up with rust the firing pin could not fall all the way and no mark at all was made on the primer. No excuse for that as they are simple to strip and properly clean. As for the spring you have to make your best guess unless you have access to a tool that can measure compression load. My best guess (and it is a guess ) is that you probaly need somewhere between 10 and 20 pounds compression strength for a rimfire. Hopefully Guntech can jump in and help us both here with a more positive answer. It may be easiest to take it to a qualified gunsmith.
Click to expand...

Wow....you fellows are amazing!

I've taken down the bolt and can say that it was free of gunk, though if I could figure out a way to clean the inside of the bolt where the firing pin sits that would better cancel out the possibility of something in there interfering with the firing pin. It does seem to move rather freely though.

I've dug up one of the rounds that I've tried firing and have to say that there's a light indent on the rim where the pin struck, with no sign of it being curved in towards the breech face.

I found in my Brownell's catalogue a "Menck .22 chamber ironing tool" for $21.95 US that swages out burrs in .22 chambers caused by excessive dry firing. If I knew for sure that this would fix the problem I'd order it, seeing how it's difficult without a car to find a gunsmith in my area.

Regards,

Frank
 
Beadwindow said:
Wow....you fellows are amazing!

I've taken down the bolt and can say that it was free of gunk, though if I could figure out a way to clean the inside of the bolt where the firing pin sits that would better cancel out the possibility of something in there interfering with the firing pin. It does seem to move rather freely though.

I've dug up one of the rounds that I've tried firing and have to say that there's a light indent on the rim where the pin struck, with no sign of it being curved in towards the breech face.

I found in my Brownell's catalogue a "Menck .22 chamber ironing tool" for $21.95 US that swages out burrs in .22 chambers caused by excessive dry firing. If I knew for sure that this would fix the problem I'd order it, seeing how it's difficult without a car to find a gunsmith in my area.

Regards,

Frank
Click to expand...

Just one other point...... I removed the bolt from the rifle and the spring/firing pin to go forward. It looks as though there's no lack of pressure on the firing pin, and it does not feel particularly easy to recock the bolt.
 
You don't need the ironing tool unless the breech face of the barrel has been badly dented by the firing pin tip actually striking the barrel.
The process that Slash5 describes serves to lengthen the firing pin slightly. If you do that, make sure the pin isn't going to strike and deform the chamber rim. if the pin actually touches the barrel, don't dry fire the rifle.
Excess headspace can result in the round being driven foreward by the pin, and the blow is cushioned. Do your fired cases look normal, or is the rim fireformed so that it looks thicker?
 
tiriaq said:
You don't need the ironing tool unless the breech face of the barrel has been badly dented by the firing pin tip actually striking the barrel.
The process that Slash5 describes serves to lengthen the firing pin slightly. If you do that, make sure the pin isn't going to strike and deform the chamber rim. if the pin actually touches the barrel, don't dry fire the rifle.
Excess headspace can result in the round being driven foreward by the pin, and the blow is cushioned. Do your fired cases look normal, or is the rim fireformed so that it looks thicker?
Click to expand...

There is what looks to me like a dent at the breech face of the barrel where the firing pin has strudk it. The dent looks comparable in size what the firing pin would be capable of making through repeated dry firing.

Sadly I currently have only rounds with a light primer strike and no fired cases:(

I am currently tending towards a solution that first revolves around trying to fix the dent as best as possible (though I'm not sure how much the ironing tool can do to fix that), with the second option being to sligthly lengthen the firing pin to make up for the effect of the dent on getting a positive primer strike.

Since the first option would partially or fully restore the gun to its original condition before being dry-fired, I am more comfortable with that in principle than modifying the firing pin, with the potential for further hazards that you describe should it drive the round forward.

The question then is to what exent can I expect the ironing tool to bring the barrel back to its original condition? Is it the type of tool that could be zealously overused with the potential to cause other problems or an option that cannot do any harm?

Your insights and advice are greatly appreciated.

Frank
 
Beadwindow: When you get that dent in the chamber face often some of the metal on the barrel face is displaced into the end of the chamber perimeter. The ironing tool will move that metal back where it came from although there may still be a lesser indent. The barrel metal if it is displaced into the chamber may form around the brass when a cartridge is fired. Many 22's lack strong extraction and the result is you open the bolt , the extractor(s) jump the rim and the case remains locked into the chamber. I know people who have simply polished out the inner edge of the chamber to remove the metal entirely. I don't think that is as satisfactory a solution as using the proper tool to displace the metal back to where it came from. If you actually get a cartridge to fire you will be able to examine the case to see if that problem is also present. Soak your bolt body in Varsol or mineral spirits, Kroil etc for a while to soften any congealed grease or oil that is internal to the bolt body. Use a bore brush of appropriate size to scour it inside then flush with solvent again.
 
As Stocker says, the chamber ironing tool won't do anything unless the metal has deformed a bump into the chamber. There has to be excess material to push back out.
I fool around with a lot of .22's so I made a Mickey Mouse chamber iron. I just cut a small taper on a piece of drill rod, cut 3 flats with a file, drilled and tapped a socket head screw into it to turn it. then fully hardened it.
Works fine.
 
Found my pictures. You'll see that I removed very little material. Didn't even clean up the surface - you can see the shiney spot material was removed. The pin is very hard and my lathe isn't up to much. It was enough to make the gun reliable with most ammo.

israelipin1.jpg


israelipin2.jpg
 
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