22 rimfire cases
- Thread starter pdg300
- Start date
.22 cases
there was a gentleman from lethbridge at the Calgary spring gun show ; he had them for sale....55 gr. fmc and sold them in quantities of 500.
I wanted to try them but he wouldn't sell anything less than 500.
always thought this would be a great idea; but , Ben Hunchak says not to goose them, like a copper plated bullet and I like to deliver a .223 50 grainer with maximum impact.
there was a gentleman from lethbridge at the Calgary spring gun show ; he had them for sale....55 gr. fmc and sold them in quantities of 500.
I wanted to try them but he wouldn't sell anything less than 500.
always thought this would be a great idea; but , Ben Hunchak says not to goose them, like a copper plated bullet and I like to deliver a .223 50 grainer with maximum impact.
Corbin swaging dies
My friend and I bought a set of the Corbin dies and accessories in the mid 1980's to make .224 bullets from .22 RFire..IIRC they were about $220 back then includeing the adjustable for weight multi- cavity lead core mold.
We had no problems shooting hundreds of them every week out of his 22-250 and I shot mine out of a .223. We never had a chrony then..but we were much younger.. and every load was near max. in every firearm we fired off in those days.
Would guess those dies etc. would cost over $500 nowadays.....
edit.......Visit to the Corbin site states the cost is US $ 783.00 for the "Kit" if you want to make them useing a regular Reloading press...An RCBS Rock chucker worked for us.
My friend and I bought a set of the Corbin dies and accessories in the mid 1980's to make .224 bullets from .22 RFire..IIRC they were about $220 back then includeing the adjustable for weight multi- cavity lead core mold.
We had no problems shooting hundreds of them every week out of his 22-250 and I shot mine out of a .223. We never had a chrony then..but we were much younger.. and every load was near max. in every firearm we fired off in those days.
Would guess those dies etc. would cost over $500 nowadays.....
edit.......Visit to the Corbin site states the cost is US $ 783.00 for the "Kit" if you want to make them useing a regular Reloading press...An RCBS Rock chucker worked for us.
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Corbin is the main source, but you might get lucky and stumble onto a set of any of the "other" makers tools that are out there.
The castboolits forum has a swaging section, and the subject of these jacketed bullet dies has come up.
If I am to believe what I have read, RCBS is initials for Rock Crusher Bullet Swager. Their presses are plenty strong, by design.
Cheers
Trev
The castboolits forum has a swaging section, and the subject of these jacketed bullet dies has come up.
If I am to believe what I have read, RCBS is initials for Rock Crusher Bullet Swager. Their presses are plenty strong, by design.
Cheers
Trev
Is there a substantial saving to be had for someone to start now? Don't you need to buy lead wire, or can you use your own lead wheel weights? I looked this over before, but it looked like a lot more $$$$ to start and work that never ends compared to the alternative of paying 15 cents per bullet. If all supplies are free I need to make over 5000 bullets just to break even, never mind if I need to pay for more stuff.
I guess if someone went in fullbore, and made a business of it, it'd be worth it, but I can't see a recreational shooter finding worth the time and $$$. Of course, it's your time and $$$, use it as you wish.
ETA RCBS stands for Rock Chuck Bullet Swager, a rock chuck being a relative of the woodchuck. The things you can learn from reading the speer reloading manuals are impressive
I guess if someone went in fullbore, and made a business of it, it'd be worth it, but I can't see a recreational shooter finding worth the time and $$$. Of course, it's your time and $$$, use it as you wish.
ETA RCBS stands for Rock Chuck Bullet Swager, a rock chuck being a relative of the woodchuck. The things you can learn from reading the speer reloading manuals are impressive
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When you buy the "kit" you have a choice of either getting their lead wire Cutter tool for when you buy "their" spools of lead wire that comes in 70,000 grain rolls..$35/roll + freight.. or you choose the 4 hole.. adjustable for weight core mold for casting the bullet cores from your supply of lead/wheelweights.
We used the mold as back then lead and wheelweights were just about free for the asking and didn't see the logic of paying for lead wire and haveing it shipped from the USA at some expense.
From the amount of shooting we did back then.. we figured we broke even after about 3-4 months of shooting. Would agree that makeing 5000 bullets would be the break even point at todays prices ..plus factoring in whatever price you can get your lead for today...and not counting your time if you were makeing the bullets for others.
I spend just as much time casting my own bullets that my time doesn't count... but the bullet is something I make for myself only .
We used the mold as back then lead and wheelweights were just about free for the asking and didn't see the logic of paying for lead wire and haveing it shipped from the USA at some expense.
From the amount of shooting we did back then.. we figured we broke even after about 3-4 months of shooting. Would agree that makeing 5000 bullets would be the break even point at todays prices ..plus factoring in whatever price you can get your lead for today...and not counting your time if you were makeing the bullets for others.
I spend just as much time casting my own bullets that my time doesn't count... but the bullet is something I make for myself only .
Last year Corbin wanted $600 for the complete setup (minus Rockchucker press).
This year he's advertising it for $780.
From what I hear, they aren't the most accurate bullets out there but if you shoot a lot and have access to free lead, then they are supposed to be great.
At that price increase, better get one now if you really want one. I should have bought it last year instead of more guns. But....
This year he's advertising it for $780.
From what I hear, they aren't the most accurate bullets out there but if you shoot a lot and have access to free lead, then they are supposed to be great.
At that price increase, better get one now if you really want one. I should have bought it last year instead of more guns. But....
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
I found that they shot OK out to 100, but at 200 yards they wouldn't group. I kind of lost interest in them at that point.
It would seem reasonable to expect that brass quality and operator error would come into the equation, and I didn't know how much care and attention to detail was given to the sample I tried.
It would seem reasonable to expect that brass quality and operator error would come into the equation, and I didn't know how much care and attention to detail was given to the sample I tried.
- Location
- Ottawa origanally Muskoka
I'm looking at making a die set. Why? Cuz I'm tired of the back orders,rising cost and lack of availability from U.S. Made reloading materials. I'm convinced I can do just as good a job and make custom profiles, densities and weights.
Grab a copy of one of the Corbin's books, Rediscover Swaging, if you need the skinny on set-ups and die styles.
Since my last post, I actually crossed paths with a complete set of Corbin 'Free' bullets from rimfire brass swaging dies along with the 4 cavity mold for cores. I bought them. Probabply paid too much, but the knowledge gained and the fact that it was not a 2 year wait....well, that's worth something too. Nothing magic about the machining quality of the die bodies. The actual die itself is a fair small portion of the work that went in to making the outfit.
Per the book above, the dies are made of A2, air hardening steel, lapped to dimension. If you are familiar with a split lap for cylindrical lapping, you pretty much have it under control.
I was looking at some solid carbide drill bushings, and considering whether they would make a good basis for a swaging die, a little while ago. Not all that different a shape from the steel die.
FWIW, Lee Valley is selling a kit of various grits of diamond lapping compounds for not huge money. They sell it to the woodworking guys looking to put the ultimate edge on their woodworking tools. But it will work fine for lapping out a bore.
Cheers
Trev
Since my last post, I actually crossed paths with a complete set of Corbin 'Free' bullets from rimfire brass swaging dies along with the 4 cavity mold for cores. I bought them. Probabply paid too much, but the knowledge gained and the fact that it was not a 2 year wait....well, that's worth something too. Nothing magic about the machining quality of the die bodies. The actual die itself is a fair small portion of the work that went in to making the outfit.
Per the book above, the dies are made of A2, air hardening steel, lapped to dimension. If you are familiar with a split lap for cylindrical lapping, you pretty much have it under control.
I was looking at some solid carbide drill bushings, and considering whether they would make a good basis for a swaging die, a little while ago. Not all that different a shape from the steel die.
FWIW, Lee Valley is selling a kit of various grits of diamond lapping compounds for not huge money. They sell it to the woodworking guys looking to put the ultimate edge on their woodworking tools. But it will work fine for lapping out a bore.
Cheers
Trev
I made a de-rimming die, core swage die, core seat die, lead wire extruding die and a core cutter. I use my Lee Classic Cast with a 2 ft bar on it for de-rimming cases, it does require a reasonable amount of oomph to do and unlike ###, it's easier to do it standing up A proper swage press makes the job almost effortless.
The de rim die is a 7/32" ID hardened A2 bushing inside a piece of threaded rod to go into the press. The punch is a 5mm dowel pin and it fits into the ram. Cases are derimmed and they stay captive inside the die and as you feed more through, pop out the top. Make sure the cases have been fired. 'Duds' are NOT duds, they make quite a loud bang when you de-rim them and shoot all the cases in the die out the top and blow the case body down around the punch which then has to be pulled off and slows down the whole process. I draw the rim out first then anneal in an oven on the self cleaning cycle. DO NOT use your wife's good baking trays for this!!!
The lead extrusion die is used on a shop press (it's easier if you have a air/hydraulic bottle jack instead of the hand pump type). I drilled and reamed a hole through a 1/2" bolt for the die and I use rolled up sheets of pure lead. You CANNOT use wheel weights in reloading press style dies, it's too hard and you WILL blow the dies. From what I understand, the hydraulic die versions can do wheel weight lead.
I made the core swage and core seat dies in reverse of the Corbin style (not my design, I copied it from a Finish guy on cast boolits), so they swage on ram-up and eject on ram-down.
The core cutter is a piece of angle iron for the base with a piece of cold rolled flat bar for the 'blade'. Uses a screw to sent the length/weight.
I had planned to buy the point forming die but I've kind of come to the conclusion that it's a waste of my time. Making bullets at home is a VERY time consuming process and you have to make many thousands of bullets over many hundreds of hours to pay off the cost of the dies. But that's me.
With the core seat and core swage dies, I didn't have to lap them at all. Here's the trick: A) Use sharp reamers, not garbage ones that have been sitting out of sleeves in a drawer banging against things, B) drill the hole, ream the hole .002-.003 undersize, then ream it onsize, C) flush the hole with COOLANT (not the stuff in your rad) while you're reaming - oil is great except that the chips just stick to the reamer and end up scratching the walls (unless you're flushing with oil), a lot of people try and counter this by backing the reamer out and clearing it but this isn't the greatest idea, once you start cutting you shouldn't stop until you're finished the cut. D) use the correct feeds and speeds for the material you're machining
A proper swage press makes the job almost effortless.The de rim die is a 7/32" ID hardened A2 bushing inside a piece of threaded rod to go into the press. The punch is a 5mm dowel pin and it fits into the ram. Cases are derimmed and they stay captive inside the die and as you feed more through, pop out the top. Make sure the cases have been fired. 'Duds' are NOT duds, they make quite a loud bang when you de-rim them and shoot all the cases in the die out the top and blow the case body down around the punch which then has to be pulled off and slows down the whole process. I draw the rim out first then anneal in an oven on the self cleaning cycle. DO NOT use your wife's good baking trays for this!!!
The lead extrusion die is used on a shop press (it's easier if you have a air/hydraulic bottle jack instead of the hand pump type). I drilled and reamed a hole through a 1/2" bolt for the die and I use rolled up sheets of pure lead. You CANNOT use wheel weights in reloading press style dies, it's too hard and you WILL blow the dies. From what I understand, the hydraulic die versions can do wheel weight lead.
I made the core swage and core seat dies in reverse of the Corbin style (not my design, I copied it from a Finish guy on cast boolits), so they swage on ram-up and eject on ram-down.
The core cutter is a piece of angle iron for the base with a piece of cold rolled flat bar for the 'blade'. Uses a screw to sent the length/weight.
I had planned to buy the point forming die but I've kind of come to the conclusion that it's a waste of my time. Making bullets at home is a VERY time consuming process and you have to make many thousands of bullets over many hundreds of hours to pay off the cost of the dies. But that's me.
With the core seat and core swage dies, I didn't have to lap them at all. Here's the trick: A) Use sharp reamers, not garbage ones that have been sitting out of sleeves in a drawer banging against things, B) drill the hole, ream the hole .002-.003 undersize, then ream it onsize, C) flush the hole with COOLANT (not the stuff in your rad) while you're reaming - oil is great except that the chips just stick to the reamer and end up scratching the walls (unless you're flushing with oil), a lot of people try and counter this by backing the reamer out and clearing it but this isn't the greatest idea, once you start cutting you shouldn't stop until you're finished the cut. D) use the correct feeds and speeds for the material you're machining
- Location
- Ottawa origanally Muskoka
Thanks for the sale info on the Lee Valley stuff.
*malice* why not a point forming die? Doesn't all the other work you have done mean nothing without a point forming die to finish the bullets? Ever think of making a point forming die? You do realize I have a whole lot of questions for you now that I know you have done what I'm going to do.
sorry about the hijack
*malice* why not a point forming die? Doesn't all the other work you have done mean nothing without a point forming die to finish the bullets? Ever think of making a point forming die? You do realize I have a whole lot of questions for you now that I know you have done what I'm going to do.
sorry about the hijack
The point forming die, especially on smaller caliber dies, is the HARDEST die to make. It needs to be a very smooth finish for easy ejection and you can't have any steps in the transition from the 'shank' diameter to the ogive. Add to that the ejection pin is a only about 1/16" so your reamer has to have very deep flutes at the tip. The cost to make proper reamers (sure I could make them but theres even more time and effort) and then all the time to make the die was more than I decided I wanted to invest.
Yes, lol, all the other work means nothing at this point, but that's okay because I mostly did it out of curiosity and it was a good learning experience. At this point I've come to the conclusion that I'd rather just buy the bullets. It's a lot of time and effort to make your own bullets, more time and effort than my time and effort is worth
But don't let me discourage you, though, making bullets is a hobby in itself and I already spend too much time reloading lol.
Yes, lol, all the other work means nothing at this point, but that's okay because I mostly did it out of curiosity and it was a good learning experience. At this point I've come to the conclusion that I'd rather just buy the bullets. It's a lot of time and effort to make your own bullets, more time and effort than my time and effort is worth
But don't let me discourage you, though, making bullets is a hobby in itself and I already spend too much time reloading lol.
