220 grain 8x57 and 3031

[conor_90]

Hi, reloading for the 8x57 JRS in an action of equal or greater strength than a m98 so for the purposes of this thread it is an 8x57

I have heard from 8mm heads that 3031 is their favourite powder. I have lots of it and as we all know powder is hard to come by at the moment.

Curious if anyone has published data or a quick load of the 220 grain with 3031 powder? I have data on all other weights. Seems a bit odd that I can’t find any when there are loads for 225 338 fed and 338-06 for it.

Thanks, I have a box of 100 220 on the way and less varget than I thought

 

[tony d]

Connor I've found CFE 223 to outperform almost anything else I've tried in the great 8
And data isn't scarce
Cheers Tony

 

[conor_90]

Powder scarcity is the issue

 

[Why not?]

Conor, the old Lyman Handbook of Cast Bullets shows 41.0 gr 3031, for 2395 fps using a 210 gr cast bullet.

Ted

 

[bearhunter]

I find IMR3031 to be to fast for 220 grain bullets in the 8x57JS.

My load is 39.0 grains, over CCI 250 primers for just over 2000fps, in Norma cases.

This is from the Milsurpknowledge site.

Some of these loads are very stout. Maybe to stout for your rifle.

The JRS round has a rim, normally used in break action, combo rifles.

I had a Drilling chambered for the 7.92x57JRS, under 16 guage barrels. I wouldn't have assumed it was as strong as a 98 action.

Some of the newer break actions, such as the BRNO offerings are very strong.

I know a fellow that rebarrelled his Ruger #1 for the round and liked it very much with 220 grain bullets.

He used the same recipe I did.

Your rifle, just gave you the information as per your request. Use them or not at your own risk.

There was nothing in any of my sources for 218-gr. bullets in the 8mm Mauser, but I did find the following:

From Sharpe's Complete Guide to Handloading:

227-gr. MC (metal case), s/d = seating depth
.225" s/d - SR80 - 14.0 - 1040 fps
.225" s/d - SR80 - 22.0 - 1510 fps
.250" s/d - IMR3031 - 39.0 - 1950 fps
.250" s/d - IMR3031 - 46.5 - 2265 fps
.250" s/d - IMR4198 - 33.0 - 1895 fps
.250" s/d - IMR4198 - 39.0 - 2025 fps
.250" s/d - IMR4064 - 44.0 - 2065 fps
.250" s/d - IMR4064 - 50.0 - 2345 fps
.250" s/d - IMR4320 - 39.0 - 1925 fps
.250" s/d - IMR4320 - 48.0 - 2280 fps

You can substitute SR4759 for SR80 in the above loads, though the 14.0-gr. load should be bumped up about a half-grain to make sure that the bullet exits the barrel, and the 22.0-gr. load (about maximum, probably) will be about 100 fps faster than the velocity noted with the 227-gr. bullet. I substituted SR4759 for SR80 in Sharpe's data for the 220-gr. bullet in 7.62x54mmR and got an average velocity of 1017 fps vs. 960 fps for the SR80 load of 14.0 grains. The velocity range was 918 to 1050 fps. The 21.0-gr. SR4759 load gave an average velocity of 1505 fps vs. 1380 fps for the SR80 load. I would expect the same relative results with the 8mm Mauser.

From 8mm (8x57JS) Mauser Pet Loads by Ken Waters:

225-gr. Speer RNSP, COL 3.115"
IMR4064 - 45.0 - 2170 fps
IMR4895 - 45.0 - 2245 fps "Best heavy bullet load"

From Lyman #94:

227-gr. Jacketed (no maker listed)
IMR4895 - 39.0 - 2125 fps
IMR4895 - 45.0 - 2350 fps
IMR3031 - 39.0 - 2125 fps
IMR3031 - 46.0 - 2400 fps
IMR4064 - 44.0 - 2240 fps
IMR4064 - 48.0 - 2450 fps
IMR4320 - 39.0 - 2100 fps
IMR4320 - 48.0 - 2455 fps

215-gr. mould #323471, gas check
IMR4198 - 28.0 - 1950 fps
IMR4895 - 35.0 - 2000 fps
IMR3031 - 35.0 - 2000 fps
IMR4064 - 40.0 - 2100 fps

I included the cast bullet data to compare against the jacketed loads.

 

[conor_90]

Thanks for the info

Rifle is a tilting block, available in several magnum chamberings

3031 is pretty uninspiring in terms of velocity, I found some Hornady data that tops out at 41.3 grains and 2200 FPS. Pretty big difference from that Lyman load. Lots of disparity from the cast bullet loads published velocity too. Maybe misquoted to me

May be able to cancel my order as it has not shipped, fingers crossed

 

[4fifty8]

Hornady Handbook 7th edition lists 220gr SP & IMR 3031, 1800 to 2200 fps mv, 24" 1:9.25 barrel Mauser 1898.

 

[conor_90]

Unrelated to 3031 load but Hornady #5 and #7 list varget max loads at 43.3 grains and ~2200 FPS. Modern hodgdon data from their reloading data centre lists a max load of 46.8 grains , 2,390 FPS , 48,800 CUP. Some similar discrepancies, guessing hornady is publishing soft data for .318 bores

Begs the question, what is the full house 3031 version of the 46.8 grain varget load?

Wish you could get a quick load like program on a cellphone app

 

[Why not?]

Hornady Handbook 7th edition lists 220gr SP & IMR 3031, 1800 to 2200 fps mv, 24" 1:9.25 barrel Mauser 1898.

Curious as to what the powder charge is that gives the 2200 fps? Would be interesting to compare it to the old Lyman load.

Ted

 

[Potashminer]

Hornady 7 lists Max load at 41.3 grains 3031 for 2,200 fps. 220 grain in 8x57. As above posting #7 - 24" barrel, 9 1/4" twist, Remington cases, Remington 9 1/2 primers. That bullet weight is not listed in Hornady 9 for that cartridge.

 

[Why not?]

Hornady 7 lists Max load at 41.3 grains 3031 for 2,200 fps. 220 grain in 8x57. As above posting #7 - 24" barrel, 9 1/4" twist, Remington cases, Remington 9 1/2 primers. That bullet weight is not listed in Hornady 9 for that cartridge.

Curious as to what the powder charge is that gives the 2200 fps? Would be interesting to compare it to the old Lyman load.

Ted

Hornady Handbook 7th edition lists 220gr SP & IMR 3031, 1800 to 2200 fps mv, 24" 1:9.25 barrel Mauser 1898.

Conor, the old Lyman Handbook of Cast Bullets shows 41.0 gr 3031, for 2395 fps using a 210 gr cast bullet.

Ted

So, the old Lyman load is almost 200 fps faster with a ten grain lighter cast bullet. Those fellas were not afraid to juice stuff up!

Cast will, however, typically produce higher velocity with the same powder charge than obtained with jacketed.

Ted

 

[Why not?]

.....

This is from the Milsurpknowledge site.
Some of these loads are very stout. Maybe to stout for your rifle.

IMR3031 - 39.0 - 2125 fps
IMR3031 - 46.0 - 2400 fps

No kidding! Ken Waters was certainly a well-known authority in loading, and 220 gr ahead of 46 gr of 3031 is very stout for sure!

Thanks bearhunter. Appreciate all the data in your post,
Ted

 

[bearhunter]

Curious as to what the powder charge is that gives the 2200 fps? Would be interesting to compare it to the old Lyman load.

Ted

I have made up loads for my present K98 sporter, which I put together last spring.

I am loading it with 56.0 grains of H414sl10 with Norma Oryx bullets weighing 196 grains and achieve 2600fps, with very good accuracy. My powder is a non canister grade lot that is slightly slower than H414/W760.

I use a load of 52 grains of the same powder with Norma 220 grain bullets and achieve 2450fps, with very good accuracy.

Once you start approaching or exceeding 2400fps, with any bullet weight, under 33 caliber, you're going to need appx 35-40% more powder and a longer barrel to get a few hundred fps more.

If you're keeping your shots below 300yds, that is plenty of velocity and energy delivered on impact to take down any animal in North America.

I shot a small White Tail with the Oryx 196 grain round nose, flat base bullets, using the above load, around 5 years ago.

Range was just over 200 yards and I had a decent rest built into the blind I was shooting from.

The rifle was sighted in for 200 yds and the marker in the field indicated it was very close to the zero distance.

That Oryx bullet, which is very good, was designed for the velocities I was achieving. The bullet went through both sides, through both shoulder blades, ribs, just under the spine and cut both arteries. Perfect shot if you can get it.

The entrance hole was barely visible but the exit hole was appx 1+inch in diameter.

The shot knocked the buck off its feet and it got back up. It was very shaky and stumbled another 50 feet before succumbing to its injuries.

The offside shoulder was bloodshot, but good enough for sausage. The inboard shoulder could be eaten to the hole.

conor_90, the loads for 3031 are not long range loads, but they are more than adequate for the shots most people are capable of and devasting on the game they hit.

If you have a lot of 3031 on hand, especially in the times we're presently going through, I would be using that powder without reservations.

If you do your job and put a 220 grain bullet, traveling at 2200fps from the muzzle into any big game animal's vitals, that you're likely to hunt in North America, it will never notice the difference between it and a similar bullet moving faster.

 

[conor_90]

The 46 grain 3031 load may represent another side of the spectrum from the light hornady loads lol. Especially when you consider hornady 196 grain data tops out at 44.5 grains.

Woodleigh publishes similar varget data to Hodgon with 220s, 46 grains max


Bear hunter appreciate the comments, this rifle has a 20 inch barrel so my concern is 2200 FPS translating to 2000 potentially

Plan was to sight in with 220s for irons and red dot in takeoff mount from euro optic, and a lighter load with a 250 yard mpbr with the 6x scope. Let the terrain decide what is used. Plus 3x redundant sights in a rifle that weighs less than 6 3/4 bs with a big 30 mm scope on it. Take that Jeff Cooper

For now I have discovered that the bullets I ordered are for 8mm RM and not intended for smaller, so I cancelled the order.

Promising results with 196 grain before my scope mount came loose under recoil. Adjusted and will try again. Using PRIVIs, the oryx are out of stock at tradex but I have some woodleigh 196 coming on the next boat from ‘Straya

I have a 338 wm if I want a long(er) range 220+ gun

 

[bearhunter]

The 46 grain 3031 load may represent another side of the spectrum from the light hornady loads lol. Especially when you consider hornady 196 grain data tops out at 44.5 grains.

Woodleigh publishes similar varget data to Hodgon with 220s, 46 grains max


Bear hunter appreciate the comments, this rifle has a 20 inch barrel so my concern is 2200 FPS translating to 2000 potentially

Plan was to sight in with 220s for irons and red dot in takeoff mount from euro optic, and a lighter load with a 250 yard mpbr with the 6x scope. Let the terrain decide what is used. Plus 3x redundant sights in a rifle that weighs less than 6 3/4 bs with a big 30 mm scope on it. Take that Jeff Cooper

For now I have discovered that the bullets I ordered are for 8mm RM and not intended for smaller, so I cancelled the order.

Promising results with 196 grain before my scope mount came loose under recoil. Adjusted and will try again. Using PRIVIs, the oryx are out of stock at tradex but I have some woodleigh 196 coming on the next boat from ‘Straya

I have a 338 wm if I want a long(er) range 220+ gun

I sincerely doubt your rifle was intended for such heavy bullets. That's just IMHO of course.

It's a European stalking rifle, intended for relatively close shots, out to 200 yards at most. That doesn't mean it's not capable of more.

The thing is, recoil must be brutal.

Even good modern 150-175 grain bullets will easily take Moose or Elk.

As for the Hornady manual and others, they do suggest loads that are safe in all bolt action rifles and caution against using them in Drillings and rifles with .318 bores.

US litigation and liability procedures are the reasons behind this.

In Europe, the onus is on the buyer to know which ammunition his rifle requires.

Go onto the Norma website and you will find loads that are appropriate for your rifle.. You can also check out the RWS website.

It's nice that your rifle is so light, but you definitely pay for it in felt recoil.

With such a short barrel, I would be inclined towards the lighter bullets.

Finding any .323 bullets of any weight in stock right now is next to impossible.

IMHO, PRIVI makes a poor choice for a hunting bullet.

 

[Andy]

IMR-3031 might produce good results in your gun, but one of the much slower 4350's and Reloder 17 will produce maximum MV and energy.


https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1173651-Some-8X57-Loads-with-a-218-gr-Bullet?highlight=218

 

[conor_90]

Every factory load I have seen in Canada for 8x57JRS is a 196 or 200 grain. I

This is all for the sake of curiosity and fun; variety is the spice of life. I have plenty of 150 and 170 grain bullets. I think 196 would be great for the kind of elk and moose hunting I do to be honest.

If I just wanted something vanilla 308 handi rifles show up all the time on the EE


Andy please send 4350 for sampling purposes

 

[conor_90]

Interesting how with 200, and 250 grain woodleighs the 8x57 performs similar or slightly faster than the 358 win. 20 inch 358s are all the rage with the cool kids I hear

 

[Brno8x57]

Every factory load I have seen in Canada for 8x57JRS is a 196 or 200 grain. I

This is all for the sake of curiosity and fun; variety is the spice of life. I have plenty of 150 and 170 grain bullets. I think 196 would be great for the kind of elk and moose hunting I do to be honest.

If I just wanted something vanilla 308 handi rifles show up all the time on the EE


Andy please send 4350 for sampling purposes

I picked up a few boxes of Sellier + Bellot 8x57JS 196 grain ammo a few years back. I have a Yugo M48A that I like to shoot.
I had shot a fair bit of Remington 170Gr factory stuff and some mild handloads, also 170 gr, prior to getting the S+B
The S+B ammo is a very stout load. Point of Impact was 5 inches higher with the S+B at 100 yards as compared to the mild Remington factory load.

If you really want to say "Ouch" after each round fired, get some S+B

 

[Potashminer]

You were using different ammo - S+B 8x57JS as you said - the Remington was likely 8mm Mauser - many thousands PSI lower to meet USA SAAMI spec, a couple hundred or more fps slower than equivalent weights 8x57JS - S+B likely Euro stuff to CIP spec. Important to know difference CIP 8x57JS versus SAAMI 8mm Mauser - not the same!!!