.223 and other ".223/5.56" ammos, I need clarification ...

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Isadorcj

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So i am looking for .223/5.56 ammo around, and there're some were made in China, Russia...so called "milsurp" though I seriously doubt it because their military dont use 5.56 at all............they all branded as ".223/5.56" so what does THAT mean?

I want 5.56 simply because it's more powerful and more fun. but are these ammo .223 power or 5.56 power??? someone every got this clear?

and plus...where are all the NATO 5.56 rounds ? they were all used up in Afganistan ? But i thought the Nato countries made trillions of them preparing for the WWIII .....
 
f:P:

From the sounding if your post you seem a little confused If not drunk ;)

While the 5.56 mm and .223 cartridges are very similar, they are not identical. Military cases are made from thicker brass than commercial cases, which reduces the powder capacity (an important consideration for handloaders), and the NATO specification allows a higher chamber pressure. Test barrels made for 5.56 mm NATO measure chamber pressure at the case mouth, as opposed to the SAAMI location. This difference accounts for upwards of 20,000+ psi difference in pressure measurements. That means that advertised pressure of 58,000 psi for 5.56 mm NATO, is around 78,000 psi tested in .223 Rem test barrels (SAAMI .223 Rem Proof MAP is 78,500 psi so every 5.56 mm round fired is a proof load, very dangerous). The 5.56 mm chambering, known as a NATO or mil-spec chambers, have a longer leade, which is the distance between the mouth of the cartridge and the point at which the rifling engages the bullet. The .223 chambering, known as the "SAAMI chamber", is allowed to have a shorter leade, and is only required to be proof tested to the lower SAAMI chamber pressure. To address these issues, various proprietary chambers exist, such as the Wylde chamber[2] or the Armalite chamber, which are designed to handle both 5.56 mm and .223 equally well.


These 5.56x45mm NATO cartridges are identical in appearance to .223 Remington. They are, however, not completely interchangeable.
Using commercial .223 cartridges in a 5.56-chambered rifle should work reliably, but generally will not be as accurate as when fired from a .223-chambered gun due to the excessive lead. [3] Using 5.56 mil-spec cartridges (such as the M855) in a .223-chambered rifle can lead to excessive wear and stress on the rifle and even be unsafe, and the SAAMI recommends against the practice.[4] Some commercial rifles marked as ".223 Remington" are in fact suited for 5.56 mm, such as many commercial AR-15 variants and the Ruger Mini-14[5], but the manufacturer should always be consulted to verify that this is acceptable before attempting it, and signs of excessive pressure (such as flattening or gas staining of the primers) should be looked for in the initial testing with 5.56 mm ammunition.

In laymans terms. There really isn't a huge difference.

Where you got "it being used up in afghan" is beyond me? Where are you getting your source of info lol. Preparing for world war 3.....

f:P:
 
.223 Remington Cartridge History
The .223 Rem traces its roots to the .222 Remington, a round popular with benchrest and varmint shooters in the 1950s. When the US military was looking for a new high-speed small-caliber round to replace the .308 Winchester (7.62×51), Remington started with the .222 Remington, and stretched it to increase powder capacity by about 20% in 1958 to make the .222 Remington Magnum. The cartridge was not accepted by the military, but it was introduced commercially. In 1964, the 5.56×45 mm, also based on a stretched .222 Rem case (and very similar to the .222 Rem Magnum), was adopted along with the new M-16 rifle. As with the .222 Rem Magnum, the new military case achieved enhanced velocity (over the .222 Rem) by increasing case capacity with a longer body section and shorter neck. This military modification of the .222 Rem was originally called the .222 Special but was later renamed the .223 Remington. In military metric nomenclature, the round is called the 5.56×45. For the full history of the 5.56×45 cartridge, read the 5.56×45 Timeline, by Daniel Watters.









.223 Remington vs. 5.56×45–Chambering and Throat Considerations

Is the .223 Remington the same as the 5.56×45? The answer is yes and no. There ARE differences between the .223 Remington as shot in civilian rifles and the 5.56×45 in military use. While the external cartridge dimensions are essentially the same, the .223 Remington is built to SAAMI specs, rated to 50,000 CUP max pressure, and normally has a shorter throat. The 5.56×45 is built to NATO specs, rated to 60,000 CUP max pressure, and has a longer throat, optimized to shoot long bullets. That said, there are various .223 Remington match chambers, including the Wylde chamber, that feature longer throats. Military 5.56×45 brass often, but not always, has thicker internal construction, and slightly less capacity than commercial .223 Rem brass.

Should you be worried about shooting 5.56×45 milspec ammo in a .223 Remington? The answer really depends on your chamber. 5.56 x45 ammo is intended for chambers with longer throats. If you shoot hot 5.56×45 ammo in short-throated SAAMI-spec chambers you can encounter pressure issues. The new long-throated ‘Wylde’ chamber allows safe use of military ammo. Wylde chambers are quite common in Rock River guns. Other manufacturers, such as Fulton Armory, offer modified “match chambers” with extended throats that allow safe use of 5.56×45 ammo in .223 Remington rifles. For a complete discussion of the .223 Rem vs. 5.56×45 question, read this Tech Notice from Winchester, and this GunZone Commentary by Dean Speir. Without belaboring the point, we’ll repeat the official SAAMI position: “Chambers for military rifles have a different throat configuration than chambers for sporting firearms which, together with the full metal jacket of the military projectile, may account for the higher pressures which result when military ammunition is fired in a sporting chamber. SAAMI recommends that a firearm be fired only with the cartridge for which it is specifically chambered by the manufacturer.”
 
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no no no ~ dont get me wrong

I know they are different ammo.

but most of the M4 that is made in US then imported into Canada have the stamp of "5.56/.223" which means they can sustain the strong power ammo 5.56 NATO

my question is, the Norinco has label their ammo as .223/5.56, then are those ammo .223 or 5.56 ?!?!?!?
 
and about the "used up in Afgan" is that ....... why we dont see any "milsurp" 5.56 ammo from NATO countries??

all the so called "milsurp" are from ex-socialism countries...Russia, Romania, China, who never used 5.56 as standard military ammo... and unless you mis-understand what "milsurp" means, you'd figure out this is not right at the first place ! Milsurp means military surplus and if military didnt use them......how the heck did the "surplus" making any sense to you ???
 
Perhaps China's state owned factories made 5.56 ammo for other countries that do use 5.56.
So it is made to Chinese MilSpec for a foreign military. Should qualify as milsurp...
 
well but psychologically if not really, we do think the NATO ammos are better than the Chinese ammo, don't we? speaking of the powder quality, brass quality and etc ~?
 
I like the Chinese ammo as they do not put a flash suppressing chemical on the powder.
Glorious big fireball!
 
Just bought some of the 5.56 milsurp from Target. Supposedly it is Saudi Arabian surplus, made by Norinco. It is definitely a military round with a slightly longer shell ( about .01, you'll likely have to trim it if you reload your rounds) and a longer bullet. 5.56mm is actually .223 on a set of calipers. I guess the Saudis found the American stuff too expensive and went to the Chinese. It's good looking stuff, nothing seems wrong with it.
 
I've never had any problems with either rounds, fired outta my AR's. From what I have noticed, is that genuine Mil-spec, or Mil-surplus 5.56 ammo, has some noticeable distinctions.
Like, a sealant around the bullet & primer, a crimped in primer, annealed cases, and a flash retardant in the powder.
Good Mil-spec SS109/M855 usually cost around $1.00 per round, and that's from what I've seen at the Gun shows.

Just my $.02
 
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