223 Grouping Poorly

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bhunts

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I purchased a new Tikka T3 Lite in 223 and mounted a new Bushnell Legend 5-15X40 with Talley one piece scope mounts. I was hoping for a decent range/varmint gun. However, I am getting terrible results. I have tried half a dozen different brands of 55 grain factory ammo. The group size ranges up to 6 inches at 100 yards. Occasionally it will produce a tight group, and then go back to scattering them all over the paper (with the same ammo).

What are the possible causes? Any suggestions would be appreciated. However, please don't suggest reloading as that is not an option at this time. I am not after extreme accuracy. I would be happy just to see all the little holes inside a 2 inch circle at 100 yards. Shouldn't that be feasible with factory ammo?
 
The barrel twist rate is not fast enough to stabilize the 55gr bullets, is most likely the cause.

I have a CZ-527 that is wonderfully accurate with 40-45gr bullets, but as soon as you stick 50gr+ bullets, the groups open up.

I think most .223's will be 1-12 or so twist rate and to stabilize heavier bullets you need 1-9... something like that. Or just resign yourself to shooting the lighter bullets.
 
Perhaps your gun likes a heavier bullet. give that a try. or how hot was your barrel when you were attempting to get a decent circle? has your gun been bedded? Barrel touching stock? Are you free standing or what type of rest are you using?
 
Tikkas are free floated. I was shooting off a rest. I would fire a few rounds, then run the bore snake through it and repeat. The barrel did get warm. The barrel has a 1 in 8 twist so maybe I should try heavier bullets.
 
I had a .222 with a 1:7 twist barrel and did not experience a loss of accuracy with the use of lighter bullets, in fact the 52 gr MK remained my go to bullet after the switch to the fast twist barrel. That sounds very much like the accuracy I was getting from Winchester 55 gr FMJ's. If you're shooting FMJ's, go to a soft point or hollow point bullet and you'll immediately see an improvment.

Get your hands on a bore sighter, the type that has a grid that appears behind the cross hairs. Adjust the scope and see if the adjustments are repeatable. If not, it might be an indication that your scope adjustments are allowing the reticle to move. Try another scope to see if that solves your problem.

I would start though by checking the action screws of the rifle, and the scope mount screws for proper tightness. Slip a piece of paper into the barrel channel to ensure it is free floated. If it is free floated, loosen the action screws and put a couple of business cards between the barrel and stock about an inch and a half back from the forend tip, then retighten the action screws. Shoot a couple of groups and see what the results are, if there is a change experiment with more or less pressure on the barrel by changing the number of cards.

If you are shooting from a bench or from a bid-pod, ensure that there is soft contact between the stock and the rest or between he bi-pod and the ground.

When you are aiming at the 100 yard target, dry fire a few times and see if the cross hair is still on the bull when the firing pin drops. Much can be learned about errors in technique from dry firing.
 
There is no reason why your 1-in-8 Tikka should not be able to shoot the lighter bullets very accurately.
 
My tikka 223 is also very picky about what it will and will not shoot. Handloading is your best recourse to finding a good load; you can tinker with primers, powder, seating depth, etc until you find a combination that works. Eventually I found a couple loads that grouped well with 75 grainers, and another load that works well with 52's.
 
I have a Tikka Varmint 223 with a 1:12 twist barrel. My rifle shoots 50-55 gr bullets to ¾ MOA. It starts to open up to greater than 1 MOA when I use bullets heavier than 62 gr.

With a 1:8 twist barrel you shouldn’t have any issues with 55 gr bullets. 6 MOA is totally unacceptable and certainly not Tikka like. Try some heavier bullets and see if it does better.

I suspect it is the scope, scope mount and/or action bolts would be the cause.
 
bhunts said:
Tikkas are free floated. I was shooting off a rest. I would fire a few rounds, then run the bore snake through it and repeat. The barrel did get warm. The barrel has a 1 in 8 twist so maybe I should try heavier bullets.
Click to expand...

Not entirely true, for my T3 300wsm is floated about 2/3 of the barrel, it came from the factory with a contact point along the barrel.
 
All tikka's and Sako's are supposed to be free floated from the factory. If yours is not, then there is an issue with your specific rifle.... All my Tikka's were free floated and the documentation even states that they are free floated.
 
Are you shooting from a bench rest?
Is any part of the barrel touching the rest?
How is your shooting technique, and trigger control?

As others have said your rifle should be very accurate.
 
Like previously mentioned, 52 gr. Sierra or Hornady match bullets are pretty much universally accurate in most .224 centerfire rifles. If it won't shoot those, you may very well have a lemon barrel.

The twist rate argument isn't a big an issue as most would suggest. Your 1:8" twist will handle anything but the heaviest +90gr. bullets. Find something it likes and buy lots of it, or learn to relaod like so many of us do here already.
 
From one of your posts you said you would shoot a few shots and then run a boresnake through it and shoot a few more--not the best technique for load testing.

start with a clean barrel and fire a few fouling shots--let it cool and then shoot for group--3 or 5 as you wish. shoot slowly and let it cool between groups. try cleaning only after several groups have been fired and shoot foulers before you start shooting for group again.

Try to be very consistent with your hold and trigger squeeze.

The above assumes that you have already checked all the screws, scope mounts and bases for tight. Also does not hurt to pull the rifle out of the stock and make sure there is no junk affecting the bedding.

44Bore.
 
won't group

bhunts said:
I purchased a new Tikka T3 Lite in 223 and mounted a new Bushnell Legend 5-15X40 with Talley one piece scope mounts. I was hoping for a decent range/varmint gun. However, I am getting terrible results. I have tried half a dozen different brands of 55 grain factory ammo. The group size ranges up to 6 inches at 100 yards. Occasionally it will produce a tight group, and then go back to scattering them all over the paper (with the same ammo).

What are the possible causes? Any suggestions would be appreciated. However, please don't suggest reloading as that is not an option at this time. I am not after extreme accuracy. I would be happy just to see all the little holes inside a 2 inch circle at 100 yards. Shouldn't that be feasible with factory ammo?
Click to expand...

You say that your Bushnell scope is new,It could very well be a Dud. It happens. Swap it out for another scope you know shoots good to see if your groups improve. You remove at least one variable that way.
 
mylesrom said:
All tikka's and Sako's are supposed to be free floated from the factory. If yours is not, then there is an issue with your specific rifle.... All my Tikka's were free floated and the documentation even states that they are free floated.
Click to expand...

The documents may say it is but I've talk to tikka reps about it and they kinda use the term loosely. They say some tikka rifles will have a bearing point. I've yet to fire the rifle but to see how accurate it is, then consider sanding it down to see if it increase the accuracy or not.

So if you slip a business card under the barrel, you could slide it all the way to the receiver? What calibers do you have?
 
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Lots of good advice! Get that barrel fouled up a bit, and tweak the load development! I doubt the gun is flawed.

As 2bad4u2 mentioned 6" groups are not reflective that bad in bullet grain size it shoud still shoot 2-3 inch groups with anything down the tube

However My Tikka just hate's V-max and A-max bullets and grouped poorly to my standard.

Shoots Sierras and Bergers very well.

I could never figure out why the Hornadys did not perform in this rifle and to date i still have no idea. Very odd concidering they are my go to bullet in my other tikkas for 6.5, 7mm, and 308??

I experienced 2-3 inch groupings.
 
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308BAR said:
The documents may say it is but I've talk to tikka reps about it and they kinda use the term loosely. They say some tikka rifles will have a bearing point. I've yet to fire the rifle but to see how accurate it is, then consider sanding it down to see if it increase the accuracy or not.

So if you slip a business card under the barrel, you could slide it all the way to the receiver? What calibers do you have?
Click to expand...

Free floating can be listed as a paper bill, and they should go all the way to the end of the chamber. A business card is probably too thick. If your paper bill goes all the way, its free floated as its not touching. I know my Vanguards were not free floated and shot as well if not better than the Tikka's, so I did not try to sand them out to free float them. If they shoot well, don't mess with it.

I had a 300 WSM, 25-06 and a 270.
 
Have you checked to make sure all of the screw are tight? Ie scope as well as action. I have a CZ 527 with a 1:12 too and it likes everything up to 60gr and less than MOA well past 100m. And I am just breaking it in and still fine tuning the scope. It will just bet better. Another thing I do when I mount a new scope is check alignment with a rig I had a machine shop make up for me. 2 4in pcs of 1in round stock with sharp points at one end. Mount each one in the mounts with the points touching or real close. If they meet right at the points the mounts are aligned. If not then time to lap. Hard to get accuracy if the scope barrel it torqued out of alignment.
 
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