223 Rem Reloading Issue - won't Chamber

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peterbing

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Hello! I'm hoping to get some confirmation / wisdom from CGN here on reloading. I'm a newbie to reloading. I have an IBI 223 Wylde barrel on a Tikka T3X that has been shooting factory ammo from Lapua (69 Scenar L) and Hornady (73 / 75 BTHP) really well. I was hoping to reload to tweak the accuracy - bought all of the toys, etc.. was worried I would blow myself up.. but fact is that I can't even get a round to chamber.

The brass is from the factory 69gr Lapua Scenar L that I shot. I figured for a newbie I should at least shoot factory ammo first, then just reuse the fireformed case. After shooting all 50, I used the Lee Neck Collet on them and did not do a full length resize.

When measuring the distance to lands with the Hornady Bullet Comparator, I got 1.8765", so naturally I tried to reload at 1.856" for a newbie 0.02" from lands, resulting in an OAL of 2.24". None of the rounds would chamber - I couldn't close the bolt. They came off the magazine just fine. After getting home and pulling all the bullets, I created the dummy round to see if I could get it to work. I could chamber if the OAL went to 2.230". Anything bigger wasn't going to chamber. The 2.230" extracted just fine. The 2.24-2.26" that I tried, and also tried a Barnes 62gr TTSX... they basically got stuck and I had to knock it back out with a cleaning rod. Case length is 1.76", which I read is acceptable.

So the question to CGN is what is the problem and where do I go from here? There seem to be some ideas on reddit... including full-length resize.. Or having to buy some other measuring device to find out how big the chamber is... or something to do with neck tension or something to do with the extractor. I could use some help in deciphering which piece of advice to follow.

Thanks!
 
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Think you might need to full length size, also did you case trim?

Possibly that the case getting stuck with the longer bullets, basically starting to engrave the bullet onto the rifling.
 
Get a Sharpie and colour one of you cases. Try to chamber, if everything goes well you should be able to see where the ink was rubbed off.

It would be odd that a fired case would not fit back into the chamber it was fired from.

Does an unadulterated fired case go back in the chamber?
 
Lyman universal decapper
Lee 223 Collet Die
Lyman 223 pro micrometer seater - do not believe it has a crimp

Did not trim the cases but now that I've pulled all the bullets, it's measuring 1.73".

When I measured the factory ammo, I remember the OAL was really short.. 2.21" if I remember correctly with a 1.83" CBTO. May explain why fireformed won't chamber if it was 2.21" OAL?

I'll give the full length die a shot. I'm just totally confused because everything I read had said fireformed works. I'm finding it to be not so much.

Additionally, I tried some nickel plated brass from shooting 60gr Sig Sauer Elite Hunting factory ammo. Same problem with chambering.

Appreciate everyone's opinion and ideas. One day I'll hopefully get to shoot a round that I load myself.


woodchopper said:
so did you trim the cases?

what dies did you use?

bullet seater with roll crimp?
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If your shorter dummy round chambered, it sounds like it's a bullet seating issue.



Try cycling of few neck sized empty cases and if the bolt will close that will confirm that your issue is the seating depth.
 
If you have been firing a regular diet of the same factory ammo - is possible that you have a carbon ring built up in the chamber neck or the "free-bore" area - that would prevent a different profile bullet from chambering. That Sharpie trick mentioned above is useful - you need to verify if your unloaded empty (but resized) brass will chamber, then find out what and where the bullet is hitting against, if the brass, alone, chambers. If you are dealing with an established hard carbon ring - is other recent threads on CGN about how to remove / dissolve that. Is also possible that your bullets are "fatter" than the case mouth walls and that chamber will tolerate - the Sharpie thing will help you to find out what is the issue.
 
fade2black said:
If your shorter dummy round chambered, it sounds like it's a bullet seating issue.



Try cycling of few neck sized empty cases and if the bolt will close that will confirm that your issue is the seating depth.
Click to expand...

I would say as above. Could you see any rifling marks on the rounds that wouldn't chamber or the dummy round?
Also, not sure you can bump shoulder with a neck collet die.
 
Thanks everyone for the ideas and comments. I didn't think to try to cycle empty cases.. so I took out bullets and decapped primers and gave it a shot. The Lapua brass would not close. The nickel plated stuff closed. The recently fired Hornady brass that hasn't even been cleaned closed. Ran the a couple Lapua brass through the full length sizer and everything works.

I have a picture of what the Lapua brass looks like compared to the other three, but I guess in the end it doesn't really matter how it ended up like that. Whether Lapua fireformed is wonky or my collet die wasn't setup properly or whatever it is.. sizing full length has fixed the issue. Setup the dummy round at 2.26" OAL and it still chambered without a problem.

I'm not quite looking forward to starting all over again in loading these... but I've gotten really handy with the sizer, the bullet puller, the decapper, the primer, the calipers, the hornady comparator, etc.. Great learning experience so far, even if I haven't fired a single reloaded round.

Thanks again CGN community for the assistance!
 
Live and learn.
I think problem was trying to bump shoulder with neck collet die. The rest of the brass was not supported and likely bulged.
I usually fire form (new brass) then neck size for five cycles then full size die and shoulder bump. Trim as needed.
You'll get a system figured that works for your rifle.
 
It is important to keep in mind that the case (headspace) and the bullet (loaded round) are two completely different things that have to be treated differently.

As someone has noted and you have kind of started down the road towards, the case headspace has to be adjusted before anything else. You can set up a FL sizing die by the instructions but it is way better to set up the sizing die to produce the correct headpiece for your rifle by using a headspace measuring tool. Basically you measure the headspace of fired cases and then set up the die to reduce the case headspace by a couple of thou.

It is possible to slightly crush the case in a Lee Collet Die. That will cause a bulge at the base of the shoulder, which would prevent the case properly chambering.

As noted above, you want to check to see if fired cases will properly chamber in the rifle. Then size the cases and make sure they will still chamber properly.

Once the case sizing and headspace is sorted, then we move to the bullet seat length. You should not crimp the bullets. There is no real reason to do that and it stops the bullet being pushed into the case neck in the event it is seated too long. You must have crimped the bullets quite hard to prevent the rounds chambering completely.
 
Skip fire forming and bumping the shoulder.


1) full length sizing and de-cap
2) trim to length / chamfer and uniform all brass after each firing.
3) Clean the primer pockets
4) Load

vary your charge weight of powder and mess with different primers to start. Do a ladder test and stick to ammo made to mag length - skip 'loading to the lands' - that is a fools errand.
Get a decent load and shoot it.
Once you have that, and you feel the need to putter with mixing it up, by all means dive down the differing rabbit holes and explore, but it isn't needed.
 
I see that you are slowly getting it sorted out.

I recently had some issues with some 243 ammo I had on the range

It was a very hot day and the ammo was very tight.

I agree with what beltfed posted above, load consistent ammo that fits in the rifle and you will have good ammo. The tweeks that give you that last 10% will take a lot of effort and time.
 
Full length size until you’ve fired it once in your rifle, then bump the shoulder back only 2 or 3 thou. COAL doesn’t account for the shape of the bullet. You need to measure the jump for every bullet you plan to use. The ogive isn’t always in the same place. Lastly, the “modified case” you get from hornady isn’t formed for your chamber. If you know how to use a tap, make your own from a fired case. That’ll help you get a true reading. Good luck.
 
Various places - Woodleigh reloading manual, Nosler reloading manual, articles by John Barsness will describe how to find when your bullet of interest is "hard" on the lands - is more than one way to do that - do not need to buy a tool for that - just a cleaning rod, perhaps wood dowels and the calliper that all reloaders should have. Woodleigh and others want their bullets seated about 0.020" to 0.040" back from "tight" on the lands - use that 0.030" "jump" as a "good place" to do your powder load work up, ladder test, etc. - mono-metal bullet makers often call for much more jump - like 0.080" or more for best performance with their bullets - then later, you might play with smidgeon more or less "jump" - in your rifle / chamber - but, so long as the round fits in the magazine - and feeds from there - and is not "tight" to the lands when that round is chambered - you are likely good to go, when you start.
 
peterbing said:
Thanks everyone for the ideas and comments. I didn't think to try to cycle empty cases.. so I took out bullets and decapped primers and gave it a shot. The Lapua brass would not close. The nickel plated stuff closed. The recently fired Hornady brass that hasn't even been cleaned closed. Ran the a couple Lapua brass through the full length sizer and everything works.

I have a picture of what the Lapua brass looks like compared to the other three, but I guess in the end it doesn't really matter how it ended up like that. Whether Lapua fireformed is wonky or my collet die wasn't setup properly or whatever it is.. sizing full length has fixed the issue. Setup the dummy round at 2.26" OAL and it still chambered without a problem.

I'm not quite looking forward to starting all over again in loading these... but I've gotten really handy with the sizer, the bullet puller, the decapper, the primer, the calipers, the hornady comparator, etc.. Great learning experience so far, even if I haven't fired a single reloaded round.

Thanks again CGN community for the assistance!
Click to expand...

Lee collet neck die only sizes the neck and does a very good job of this... but that means, the case body may expand from firing and not chamber properly. The collet neck die shouldn't cause any change to the case body if used properly. This die determines your neck tension

I use a Redding body die to bump the shoulder as necessary to ensure the CASE fits the chamber... said another way, the case now headspaces properly in the rifle.

Then I set the seating depth so the BULLET fits into the chamber/throat with the desired clearance to the lands. Because of the huge range of bullet shapes even with the same weight... OAL is not a good way to determine what fits the chamber. Base to Ogive is the measurement you need to confirm the clearance from the bullet ogive to the lands... not the bullet tip. you can have an OAL longer or shorter when comparing bullets of the same weight.

I would definitely start with 10 thou of clearance (ogive to lands).. some bullets will like more... some less. This is where seating depth testing can be useful.

And yes, the ideal OAL for a bullet may not fit in the mag. And yes, the OAL that you need may be different to another shooter even when using the same components and rifle brand. Chambers vary... treat every rifle as its own story

Learning how to use the basic tools and how to take apart ammo is one of the many lessons on the road to being a competent and safe reloader.

Enjoy the journey

Jerry
 
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