.223 rifle opinion for coyote and long range target

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little_airwolf

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Just wondering what you guys recommend for a rifle for coyotes and target shooting up to 500 yds? I know bolt action would be better but semi auto is great for fun running drills.
I like the su-16 because of the weight!
Non-restricted is a must.
 
Been there, done that. You are correct, initially the semi's are sweet to shoot. You mention that you want to shoot out to 500 yards - that is a tough shot, even with a bolt.

I would be more inclined to use a larger caliber such as a 243. With the semi, things will be great until you miss a few 'yotes because of some of the inherent weaknesses of the action and accuracy. Yes, there are some fine tuned instruments out there with some very expensive modifications to enhance accuracy, but the off the shelf models with be just standard shooters for that class of rifle. The issue will be that they will not compare anywhere near the same inherent accuracy of a decent bolt rifle for the same price range.

I am a varmint hunter and when I started, I called a few and missed a few with the semi that I do not miss with my bolt rifle. One particularly disturbing lesson for me was when I shot a 'yote with my semi (223) at about 350 yards away with a fencepost for a rest. The first bullet struck in the hind quarter just below the hip and downward to strike the other leg. I crippled it and it kinda crawled along whining. My second shot missed (high, I think). My third shot hit it in the jaw. I ran up a bit and finished it with a closer shot. I was using cheap white box ammo and took the rifle to the range and found it to have a wide group with seemingly wandering shots as the barrel heated up. I took my bolt rifle out and with the same ammo, the shots had about a 5" group at 300 yards.

Another problem is that when practicing to shoot semi's, it seems that folks gravitate to the cheap ammo, which is not exactly known for stellar accuracy. Shooting good quality ammo gets expensive with the semi.

My solution was to buy both. I hunt seriously with the bolt and have fun at the range with the semi. I will hunt with it too, but selectively stay to having a shooting commitment to 150 yards or so.
 
sobo4303 said:
Been there, done that. You are correct, initially the semi's are sweet to shoot. You mention that you want to shoot out to 500 yards - that is a tough shot, even with a bolt.

I would be more inclined to use a larger caliber such as a 243. With the semi, things will be great until you miss a few 'yotes because of some of the inherent weaknesses of the action and accuracy. Yes, there are some fine tuned instruments out there with some very expensive modifications to enhance accuracy, but the off the shelf models with be just standard shooters for that class of rifle. The issue will be that they will not compare anywhere near the same inherent accuracy of a decent bolt rifle for the same price range.

I am a varmint hunter and when I started, I called a few and missed a few with the semi that I do not miss with my bolt rifle. One particularly disturbing lesson for me was when I shot a 'yote with my semi (223) at about 350 yards away with a fencepost for a rest. The first bullet struck in the hind quarter just below the hip and downward to strike the other leg. I crippled it and it kinda crawled along whining. My second shot missed (high, I think). My third shot hit it in the jaw. I ran up a bit and finished it with a closer shot. I was using cheap white box ammo and took the rifle to the range and found it to have a wide group with seemingly wandering shots as the barrel heated up. I took my bolt rifle out and with the same ammo, the shots had about a 5" group at 300 yards.

Another problem is that when practicing to shoot semi's, it seems that folks gravitate to the cheap ammo, which is not exactly known for stellar accuracy. Shooting good quality ammo gets expensive with the semi.

My solution was to buy both. I hunt seriously with the bolt and have fun at the range with the semi. I will hunt with it too, but selectively stay to having a shooting commitment to 150 yards or so.
Click to expand...

^x2
I'm not sure you need any other posts after this one little_airwolf~I agree with every word of it myself. NR .223 semis that are 1/2 worth a damn are very pricey things and even then, I've never heard of (or really bothered to search-out) one that shot as well, unmodified, as a decent off-the-shelf bolt gun. Ammo is also a big part of the equation, as stated already, so a bolt gun won't digest as much AND deliver the lead where it ought to be going. I'd strongly suggest you start with a bolt action.

This is the .223 I use for varmint hunting, and it's a better shooter than I am. :) On my best days, I've put 5 shots through 1 ragged hole @ 110 yards with it using Hornady 55gr. V-max. (my preferred varmint round) Hard (for me) to be tempted by a Kel-Tec when I know it won't hold a candle to how this shoots.

PC10onabaleofhay.jpg
 
Hey shooter33~no problem. I'm a "details man" myself, so I've thrown-in some links so that you can see the exact specs if you decide you want to.

Rifle

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/10PRECISIONCARBINE

Scope

http://vortexcanada.net/products/riflescopes/viper_hs/viper_hs_4-16x44_lr.html

Rings (the extra rail pc. not needed, but these were on sale :) )

http://www.millettsights.com/tactical-hardware/tactical-rings-with-accessory-rail/

Bipod

http://www.harrisbipods.com/HBLMS.html

With respect to the rifle~I was considering a .204 Ruger as well, but the Precision 10 Carbine didn't come chambered in it. Almost chose the Savage "Predator Hunter" in .204 for my purposes (=average length of shot) here in Ontario, but I've always wanted a .223, and I like the looks of the Precision 10. Were I setting-out today to get a .223, I'd be taking a long look at the Savage "Hog Hunter". Again, utilitarian...short...robust, but lacks the Savage Accustock. (and the extra $ that costs) Seeing how well my nephew shoots his entry-level Savage Axis in .223, I have a hunch that the Hog Hunter model would have been an excellent choice for me too...and I probably would have chosen IT instead, if only to save myself some $. I'm really pleased with this gun, just love shooting it. Allot of groundhogs were sent to the great beyond this summer. :)

Anyhow, hope this helps...and good luck!
 
A scary accurate 243 shooting 90-105gr vlds or a 260/6.5-284 shooting 120-140 vlds would be the ticket. Add in a good range finder and a high quality scope with turrets are also a must have.

The bigger bullets are a lot more forgiving and deliver more payload way out there. Good luck shooting them.
 
Sask_Hunter said:
A scary accurate 243 shooting 90-105gr vlds or a 260/6.5-284 shooting 120-140 vlds would be the ticket. Add in a good range finder and a high quality scope with turrets are also a must have.

The bigger bullets are a lot more forgiving and deliver more payload way out there. Good luck shooting them.
Click to expand...

Sask_Hunter makes a good point~hadn't noticed you're in Calgary...lots of more open space than what you're likely to find here in Ontario. Having said that, a buddy of mine in Calgary uses a .223 for coyotes, a CZ527 Varmint. I'd still give the nod to .223, but I think you need a pile of practice with one if you're reaching-out to coyotes beyond about 300 yards. Take a look at the trajectory chart in this link, and the amount of drop between 300 and 400 yards. I think it's easy to "eyeball" 6" if you're zeroed @ 200, but guesstimating approx. 17" if that coyote is @ 400 would be tougher. The BDC reticle in the Vortex I shoot with deserves a close look though...but practice practice!

http://www.hornady.com/store/223-Rem-53-gr-V-MAX-Superformance/

On another note....here in Ontario...we're probably hunting closer to farm houses and livestock than you are out there. .223 isn't obscenely loud, and never an issue where I hunt. I also find that the recoil is so light that you can see the impact clearly through the scope. I've shot .243 and .270 and find the recoil (while totally manageable) is enough of a push to make seeing impact almost impossible. Then again, I'm only 6' 2", and 330 lbs. :)
 
.22LRGUY said:
^x2
I'm not sure you need any other posts after this one little_airwolf~I agree with every word of it myself. NR .223 semis that are 1/2 worth a damn are very pricey things and even then, I've never heard of (or really bothered to search-out) one that shot as well, unmodified, as a decent off-the-shelf bolt gun. Ammo is also a big part of the equation, as stated already, so a bolt gun won't digest as much AND deliver the lead where it ought to be going. I'd strongly suggest you start with a bolt action.

This is the .223 I use for varmint hunting, and it's a better shooter than I am. :) On my best days, I've put 5 shots through 1 ragged hole @ 110 yards with it using Hornady 55gr. V-max. (my preferred varmint round) Hard (for me) to be tempted by a Kel-Tec when I know it won't hold a candle to how this shoots.

PC10onabaleofhay.jpg
Click to expand...

Our Swiss Arms classic green does not miss the gong at 500yrds. When I say does not miss I mean it. Now it is a pricey rig but honestly I'm sick of hearing that semis have inherent inaccuracy blah blah blah. Thats not to say that a high tuned bolt rig won't out shoot a semi in terms of minute group accuracy i.e. trying to put a round through the same hole but in terms of field accuracy the difference is lost.

Unless your going for a eye shot between blinks to save the eyelid meat. :p
 
My eyelid splitting Savage bolt action cost me $800. The Swiss Arms Green on the site costs $3,400.

"Price check on aisle Three!" - is precisely what I wrote about. For a semi to shoot precisely accurate at 500 yards, it will have some very expensive machinery in it. Most people are going to select a moderately priced rifle. A semi in the $800 to $1,200 range is not going to be a precise shooter without expensive modifications.

On the other hand, a $3,400 bolt rifle will definitely outshoot the Swiss Arms in an accuracy contest. One must also recognize that the Swiss Arms is designed for a service level to which the standard rifle technology was proven to be outdated back in the early parts of WWII. That is the point I was trying to make. Apples to apples.
 
I have a Model 10 Predator and it's a decent shooter for a factory rifle. 10 shots @ 200 yards and I wasn't taking my time. The smaller hole on the left is 17cal.

IMG-20120816-00301.jpg
 
savage carbine ++

I also have a savage carbine in .223-use it for both coyote shots and my 300m target shots-I love it !!!!!
This is my 200m 4" wide target-The silver hits are from my .17M2

bberrysummer2011245.jpg
 
Thanks guys! Yes I shoot metal targets at 200+ yds but I'd like to hit yots at closer distances. They come onto my property looking for food and scare my horses and freak out my dogs in there dog run. Would like to take care of business so I don't have hurt horses or dogs.
I shoot my savage btvs 22 175 yards with 6" groupings w/ wind so 223 should be no problem.
 
Sask_Hunter said:
i thought this thread was about shooting coyotes at long range not shooting paper/tin at 200?:popCorn:

699 yards from the leica, 115gr berger vld 257AI

byronspic340.jpg
Click to expand...

Nice. I was going to load up some 100gr Nosler BTs for mine tonight but got sidetracked. What's your load data?
 
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