.223 vs .308 - General Purpose Rifle

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ol'blacky

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A friend of mine wants to buy a new AR, and has been looking at some of the ones in .308, such as DPMS Panther Arms LR-308 SASS.

I have been shooting a Bush Master .223 and just bought a new Stag .223 Wylde, and have been trying to convince him of the merits of .223.

As we are Northerners, it is hard to ignore the value of .308 as a killing round; I kill a deer every year with my Savage bolt-action .308, which he used as supporting evidence that .308 is just a better round.

The aim for his rifle is for a general purpose, attrition-scenario rifle, and possibly for some carbine/pistol match shooting.

I wonder if some of you experienced military types could chime in and give us some insight into this question.

What is a better attrition-scenario calibre for an AR-pattern rifle; .223 or .308?

Thanks.
Blacky.
 
First off I'm not mil or LE but I'll offer my take on the situation.

308 is a great round but has its down sides. Its heavy, its expensive, and its not as common as 223/556 should sugar go to sh*t. 223/556 is the standard NATO calibre for the majority of infantry rifles. However, 308 is also a NATO standard calibre. The benefits of reduced recoil, increased magazine capacity(size and weight being equal) and lower cost to feed all give the 223/556 the edge. The increased range, barrier penetration and ft/lbs of energy give the advantage to the 308. Regardless, the major determining factor here is ones ability to practice and train with said rifle/calibre. In that respect, 223/556 wins hands down. Having a 308 and little experience or very limited quantities of ammo isn't worth a hill of beans.

Personally, it doesn't matter what you throw at someone or what is being thrown at you, no one wants to get shot. That alone pretty well negates the debate between which is better for defensive or offensive work against humans. Many people have been killed with both calibres and many more have been killed with other calibres. As for competition, the 223/556 again wins due to the merits above. Competing is all about time and the redued recoil means rapid follow up shots and faster times. The increased velcoity of 223/556 over 308 also means a flatter trajectory.

TDC
 
USP said:
Get a .223 AR and a .308 bolt gun.
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Hey, one more post and you're in the 10k range :)

ol'blacky, if your friend intends to spend time at the range, the .223 ammo is less expensive and more available. In competitions I think it would be easier to shoot as well.
 
You have a couple of 223's. Why not have him get the 308 and you could share. When the new San sapr becomes available in Canada I will be switching over to 308 but will keep a few 223/556. I prefer 308 but cannot dispute the merrits of the 223
 
If you really want a great side by side comparison, handle the HK MR223 and HK MR308 side by side. .
 
I've got to say, I just don't see .223/5.56 being an honest "general purpose" rifle for "northerners".

There's a good reason that in most jurisdictions you cannot hunt big game with centerfire .22's. It's also the same reason that in Iraq, the new(ish) guideline to kill a bad guy, as opposed to hurting him, is four rounds in the body and two in the head.

It's a .22!

If you want a general purpose rifle for a wide range of scenarios in the north, you're clearly leaning towards .308.

And once a fellow starts shooting multiple rounds of .223 to get the same effects on a target as one round of .308, the whole cheaper/lighter thing goes out the window.
 
If I was your buddy, I'd look into buying a Norc M305 (M14 knockoff) in .308. It's cheap enough and reliable enough for what your buddy wants to do with it.

IIRC most .308 semi autos (aside from the Norc) are built on an AR platform and are therefore restricted to range use only. I'd love to have an AR in .308 for hunting, but it isn't gonna happen anytime soon.
 
Boston's Gun Bible also does a pretty good run down on the 308 vs 223 comparison and in the end comes up 308.

And if it's real theater service examples the US is still shipping out with various versions of the M14 also in 308 as it's the battlefield round. 223 just doesn't have the penetration power in brick, cinder block etc as the 308 does.
 
Spearhunter said:
Hey, one more post and you're in the 10k range :)

ol'blacky, if your friend intends to spend time at the range, the .223 ammo is less expensive and more available. In competitions I think it would be easier to shoot as well.
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Lol I went 10K and didnt even notice until I read your post..:p
 
I've used the .308 in combat (in an M14 selective fire) and I own a number of .223 AR-15 carbines and rifles, an M-14 (Norc) and a AR-10 so I use them frequently enough to have an opinion. For hunting, to stay legal on several grounds, as has been mentioned, you need a .308, bolt action or M14. It's no contest in range and killing power for anything larger than a coyote, the .308 wins. For general fun in the range and for playing weekend warrior games, no contest, the .223 is the way to go. Try and shoot a .308 in a house clearing scenario, over and over again and you see how much fun it is, it's not, at least for most of us. Plus, .223 ammo is more plentiful and cheaper etc etc. In the hypothetical case where the excrement collides with the turbine blade, what's legal and what's not becomes irrelevant. Then you need both. The .308 to keep their heads down out to 800 m and to hunt for survival and the AR-15 or semi-auto .223 for closer to where you can see the white of their eyes, so to speak. Just prey that never happens, it's ugly! Sorry, but there's not one caliber that fills all the requirements but if I had to choose just one, it would be a .308.
 
Northman999 said:
I've got to say, I just don't see .223/5.56 being an honest "general purpose" rifle for "northerners".

There's a good reason that in most jurisdictions you cannot hunt big game with centerfire .22's. It's also the same reason that in Iraq, the new(ish) guideline to kill a bad guy, as opposed to hurting him, is four rounds in the body and two in the head.

It's a .22!
Click to expand...

The US Army has found that hitting the target takes care of most of the .223s reported inability to kill. Shooting AT something is not good enough, and never has been.
 
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