22lr sizing die

[Zum]

Anyone using a sizing die or hollow point maker?
My 22 likes mini mags and I'd like to try to hollow point some for rabbit hunting.
I know it's going to change the size and possibly the weight but I'm ruining or making to many 3 legged bunines. I'm even thinking of going back to just a shotgun for rabbits, very seldom do I wreck much meat. I use a 22 because it's more of a challenge and don't really care if I get too many...a fed or 2 a season is all I want.
If you shoot a rabbit head on with a minimag, it might go through the head, follow the spine and break a back leg on its exit.
I'm either going to try some lower velocity rounds maybe CCI sv standard or try some type hollow points. I use a semi so going to low in velocity may not work.
Anywayes kinda wondering about the sizing or shaping dies...
Anyone machinists here in Canada making any? I know there are a few makers in the states but there must be people making there own up here.

 

[kodiakjack]

Why aren't you just using mini mag hollow points?



http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/detail.aspx?use=5&loadNo=0031

 

[.22LRGUY]

I'm not aware of anyone making these in Canada, but got my Waltz kit direct from Neal a couple of years back. I think they're quite awesome to be honest. When I discovered CCI Blazer solids were the best (and cheap) shooters form my CZ452 Varmint, I needed to make them into better anti-gopher rounds. (or rather, WANTED to ) I literally ran thousands of them through my Waltz die, but here are a couple of photos to shot the results on (I think) mini mags, before and after...as well as Federal bulk-pack in the second photo. If anyone would like dispute the effectiveness of those gaping hollow points, I could post some gopher photos. lol In use, there was a substantial difference between the effect of unmodified MM rounds (tried some for comparison's sake) and my giant HP custom Blazers. In all honesty, both were the "hammer of Thor" on gophers, with an honest "gooey" factor advantage to the Blazers. Heck, even the sound of the impact was an audible "pop" sound. Hits were more 17HMR-like than like that of a 22. No complaints here.

I should add, because the Waltz die is like a functioning reloading die, you can control the depth of the HP. The rod that forms it is slightly tapered so the shallower it is, the smaller the diameter too.

 

[parksb2]

I'm not aware of anyone making these in Canada, but got my Waltz kit direct from Neal a couple of years back. I think they're quite awesome to be honest. When I discovered CCI Blazer solids were the best (and cheap) shooters form my CZ452 Varmint, I needed to make them into better anti-gopher rounds. (or rather, WANTED to ) I literally ran thousands of them through my Waltz die, but here are a couple of photos to shot the results on (I think) mini mags, before and after...as well as Federal bulk-pack in the second photo. If anyone would like dispute the effectiveness of those gaping hollow points, I could post some gopher photos. lol In use, there was a substantial difference between the effect of unmodified MM rounds (tried some for comparison's sake) and my giant HP custom Blazers. In all honesty, both were the "hammer of Thor" on gophers, with an honest "gooey" factor advantage to the Blazers. Heck, even the sound of the impact was an audible "pop" sound. Hits were more 17HMR-like than like that of a 22. No complaints here.

Lots of opinions if you go to rimfire central forums.

Neal Waltz waltz@sssnet.com is the email to order from; he guy is from Ohio. I am going to try a set, it's $130USD + $15 SH he ships USA only.

Found the email here w w w.ammosmith.com/forum/index.php?topic=7375.0

 

[Mike112288]

@22lrguy. Where can I get one a them tools?! I really wanna do this to my gopher ammo lol

 

[kodiakjack]

I'm not aware of anyone making these in Canada, but got my Waltz kit direct from Neal a couple of years back. I think they're quite awesome to be honest. When I discovered CCI Blazer solids were the best (and cheap) shooters form my CZ452 Varmint, I needed to make them into better anti-gopher rounds. (or rather, WANTED to ) I literally ran thousands of them through my Waltz die, but here are a couple of photos to shot the results on (I think) mini mags, before and after...as well as Federal bulk-pack in the second photo. If anyone would like dispute the effectiveness of those gaping hollow points, I could post some gopher photos. lol In use, there was a substantial difference between the effect of unmodified MM rounds (tried some for comparison's sake) and my giant HP custom Blazers. In all honesty, both were the "hammer of Thor" on gophers, with an honest "gooey" factor advantage to the Blazers. Heck, even the sound of the impact was an audible "pop" sound. Hits were more 17HMR-like than like that of a 22. No complaints here.

I should add, because the Waltz die is like a functioning reloading die, you can control the depth of the HP. The rod that forms it is slightly tapered so the shallower it is, the smaller the diameter too.

But how is accuracy affected? Got any before and after group size comparisons?

 

[metalbender]

Last time I talked to Neal, prob a couple of years ago, he had no issues shipping to Canada. He makes them ten at a time as a hobby. A little pricey by the time it arrives, but a great tool for the rimfire shooter. Really does put meaning in the term "pop a few gophers"

 

[ben777lemay]

 

[Zum]

Why aren't you just using mini mag hollow points?



http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/detail.aspx?use=5&loadNo=0031

To be honest never knew they were available. There's only a Ctire around here for purchasing, I've never ordered ammo online. Thanks for the heads up though, maybe I'll ask the store manager to bring some in.
I know about the American made dies or at least 3 of them, it's just with our crappie dollar ,shipping, duties and it may be some type of contraband....thought maybe some machinist may have made his own type die more locally.
That waltz die does look like it does a nice job though.

 

[.22LRGUY]

@22lrguy. Where can I get one a them tools?! I really wanna do this to my gopher ammo lol

Hey Mike~directly from Neal Waltz, someone else posted his contact info. He can be slow to reply, but it's worth the effort. He makes these in small runs, so you may get in on the current one...or the next one depending on how many he has committed. At least, that's how it was when I bought. NO issues shipping to Canada at the time either.

 

[.22LRGUY]

But how is accuracy affected? Got any before and after group size comparisons?

Hey kodiak~I do somewhere, but in preparing for gopher-armageddon...I found the best few shooters. Then I ran lots of samples through the HP die, then re-tested. I think only 1 ammo type got worse. The rest shot as well, or better. The Federal I ran through for a buddy's gun, the Blazers are what my CZ likes most.

 

[Mike112288]

Thanks 22lrguy! If I can't get one I know for darrrrrn sure I can make one Yet myself

 

[kodiakjack]

To be honest never knew they were available. There's only a Ctire around here for purchasing, I've never ordered ammo online. Thanks for the heads up though, maybe I'll ask the store manager to bring some in.
I know about the American made dies or at least 3 of them, it's just with our crappie dollar ,shipping, duties and it may be some type of contraband....thought maybe some machinist may have made his own type die more locally.
That waltz die does look like it does a nice job though.

Yeah, I just bought a box from my crappy tire, so I'd think getting them at yours wouldn't be a big deal...

Hey kodiak~I do somewhere, but in preparing for gopher-armageddon...I found the best few shooters. Then I ran lots of samples through the HP die, then re-tested. I think only 1 ammo type got worse. The rest shot as well, or better. The Federal I ran through for a buddy's gun, the Blazers are what my CZ likes most.

Interesting. I'd have thought accuracy would suffer.

 

[.22LRGUY]

Yeah, I just bought a box from my crappy tire, so I'd think getting them at yours wouldn't be a big deal...



Interesting. I'd have thought accuracy would suffer.

Well, as mentioned..it did with one ammo (Winchester 333) but the rest were the same or better. Not trying to sell anyone on the Waltz die, nor do I run ammo through it for the heck of it. It was to make them more effective gopher-slayers, and it succeeded in a huge way. I'll be 100% honest, given the chance...I'd be shooting centerfire or 17HMR only at them as I'd read numerous accounts of 22s being very underwhelming on them. However, we were told to expect huge #s and well...I'm somewhat frugal. Next best thing was to try and make 22 the best tool it could be, and I was extremely satisfied with the results.

Maybe relevant to the conversation... I can't find any post-WALTZ groups...just some photos of some flies shot @ 54 yards using them. However, this is a photo of a typical 5 shot group shot with the BLAZER pre-Waltz @ 54 yards. I did shoot some groups after, they looked the same. Not competition-level results, but that's under 1/2" @ 54 yards without trying that hard, so I'll take that for a high-volume-requirement gopher-load!

This is a photo I had to take, after shooting 6 gophers at over 170 yards. Ranged, witnessed, repeated. CCI Blazer through the Waltz, CZ452 Varmint. Now, nothing really brag-worthy if you consider how many shots it took to get the windage/elevation sorted-out (=lots) but once I did...it was a gopher every shot or two until they'd either been smacked, or figured-out something was up! Consider this too~for me to fly from southern Ontario to shoot gophers in southern Alberta in an area that was literally crawling with them...why bother with these low-odds, long range ones? I'll tell you~speaks to how many we'd already sent to the gopher patch in the sky! Spotting these distant ones, ranging, my buddy spotting~VERY fun way to kill some time.

Anyhow~typed all of that as I have gophers on the mind of late, but suffice to say...I think it's a niche tool to say the least. We literally shot gophers at 25/50/75 more than 90% of the time with a variety of 22 ammo types and were left with ZERO doubt my Waltzed Blazers were the very best. I've also shot gophers with .223, 6.5 Creedmoor, .308, 12ga. and 45/70...but those stories for another thread.