25 cal reloading with blackpowder, what grade?

Fox

Fox

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I received my 25 ACP dies, I will be using these to make cartridges for my 25 Stevens rifle in a long and drawn out process.

I wanted to know has anyone loaded blackpowder in such a small bore and if so what grade of blackpowder are you using?

I am loading for 44 Webley and am using FFFg for that but I have seen a few people who load 22LR blackpowder for old guns and load with FFFFg, which do you think would be correct for the 25 cal?

Thanks
 
Firstly I don't load for this caliber.

Second 4F is very fine and used for priming powder on flintlocks.

I would stick with 3F just based on my BP experiences. I do load BPCR but in 45/70, 50/70, 50/95, ie bigger calibers and I am currently using 1.5F.
 
Apparently .25 Stevens Short? 3F burns well in the .32 Short & Long Colt/RF - slightly larger caliber yes, but I'd suggest it's comparable. A good primer (or "primer"/blank) is key. Really nothing wrong with using 4F though for the .25, if that's what you have then it'd be worth "giving it a shot".
 
I found a download for GOEX, they actually have reloading data for 25-25 stevens, same bore, so I would assume that stuff would burn in a shorter barrel and not muck up that bore too bad and they say FFFg, so that will be ideal for me.

Using FFFg will mean I only need to get one type, I was iffy though as I saw some other reloaders using FFFFg for tiny bores.

As an aside, I am making 25 Stevens Rimfire Intermediate. The 17 WSM case is slightly smaller in diameter than the 25 Stevens but the rim is exactly the same side and the empty primed case goes bang in my grandpas 25 Stevens rimfire.

The plan is a full case or BP under a 50gr bullet powered by the primer of the 17 WSM in a cut down case. The bullet will be pan lubed in BP lube.
 
Nice; have you been reading up on the castboolits thread? I recall reading someone's adventures in the .25 RF (whether that's similar to the Stevens, off the top of my head I don't know). There were several avenues I've read about folks taking and the .17 WSM case was one of the options.

Please keep us updated, I reload .32 RF and very interested in seeing how folks are tackling other rimfire challenges.
 
I saw that someone was trying it before but I did post on here as well looking for .251 soft lead bullets, I don't feel comfortable with using hard cast in a 90-100 year old gun that will shoot slow anyway.

I had put some pictures up with regards to how I will trim and use the case, that may be the one you are thinking about but there are a few people doing similar things on the Internet.

I called my thread "25 Stevens Intermediate" as this case will be between the short and long length.

I just really wish I could find a 65gr bullet but 48-50 looks to be all I can get unless I make a custom mold or get a larger mold and build a swaging die to bring it down to size, at this point I am working on making this thing run again and already buried enough money in tools so I will go with a 50gr.

Here is a mold that might work to swage down from.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=26_180&products_id=1870

As for the .32 rimfire, that shoots a heeled bullet I believe, the 25 Stevens is inside lubricated.

There are companies out there that make molds for the .32 rimfire, if you can get your hands on one then you could make a sleeve to fit a rimfire blank with a proper .32 heeled bullet seated in the top. It all depends how much time and money you wanted to put into them and what type of gun it is.
 
Interesting; I'll look around for it.

Yes I've tried about everything for the .32 some things work better than others. Most recently I started simply turning my own reloadable cases with the hole drilled offset to take .22 blanks (for many reasons). I use a .22 chamber reamer now just because it's one step and clean, but certainly tried it other ways as well. I've loaded a lot with the .27 ramset as well, dumping the powder and using as a primer with BP. I load with either a round ball or heeled bullets I get from Jethunter, depending on the case, the load and what I'm shooting it in.
 
If you are going with Goex 3fg should be right.

Fouling in the small bores like that can be a pain and several people I know use the synthetic substitute powders.
Make sure you have bp compatible lube and you might want to swab the bore every 5 rounds or more for best results.
 
vagrantviking said:
If you are going with Goex 3fg should be right.

Fouling in the small bores like that can be a pain and several people I know use the synthetic substitute powders.
Make sure you have bp compatible lube and you might want to swab the bore every 5 rounds or more for best results.
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That is what I was curious about, it will only be about 10gr of powder, maybe less, but will it all burn in a shorter barrel and will it make for unsafe operation with fouling after a few shots or is it just a matter of bring dirty.

This is a Boy's rifle, I think the barrel is 24in.
 
It won't be unsafe fouled. Just lose accuracy and be a bugger to clean.
Just shot 20 rounds of 32S&W black that was lubed with alox (and about 10 years old). Took me an hour to clean. I should have known better but just wanted to get them empty.

Any type of black powder you put in a case that small will all burn but finer powder will burn faster and cleaner.
 
vagrantviking said:
It won't be unsafe fouled. Just lose accuracy and be a bugger to clean.
Just shot 20 rounds of 32S&W black that was lubed with alox (and about 10 years old). Took me an hour to clean. I should have known better but just wanted to get them empty.

Any type of black powder you put in a case that small will all burn but finer powder will burn faster and cleaner.
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This gun did use Smokeless back in the day, so I should not be worried about higher pressure from FFFFg correct?

I may have a buddy with a flint lock, once I get the bullets I could potentially make a few rounds of each and see how they foul up the bore.
 
On You-Tube Duelist1954 uses 12 grains of 4F in a .31 caliber 1849 Colt Pocket replica.
He seems to be one of the go-to guys for black powder guns, as the black powder editor for Guns of the Old West magazine.

Can't see 10 grains of 4F doing any harm in a .25 caliber case as long as the case is full and there is no airspace.
 
I use 3F in everything from .44 pistols all the way up to my brown Bess musket. You probably already know this but modern powder values grains by weight (7000/lb) but black powder grains is by volume.
 
MikeD81 said:
I use 3F in everything from .44 pistols all the way up to my brown Bess musket. You probably already know this but modern powder values grains by weight (7000/lb) but black powder grains is by volume.
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I get that, 44 and up, now, how would FFFg work for a 25?

Yes, 7000gr/lb and they are measured by volume but you can still measure it by weight, they are just not comparable.

I will be loading a compressed case worth, the exact amount I am not exactly sure. The 25 short was loaded with 4.5-5gr of BP, the long was 10-11gr but the type is unknown. I know the FFFFg will burn faster and generate more velocity and cleaner but it is too fast for something like a 44, but maybe not so for a 25.


I think I will try FFFg and borrow a Chrony, if my speeds are not as high as expected I will look at testing with some FFFFg.

I guess I am the first one on here trying this sort of thing, makes me feel good that I am being innovative but a little weird too. At least BP is not like smokeless and a little more does not make huge differences in pressure.
 
Fox said:
I get that, 44 and up, now, how would FFFg work for a 25?

Yes, 7000gr/lb and they are measured by volume but you can still measure it by weight, they are just not comparable.

I will be loading a compressed case worth, the exact amount I am not exactly sure. The 25 short was loaded with 4.5-5gr of BP, the long was 10-11gr but the type is unknown. I know the FFFFg will burn faster and generate more velocity and cleaner but it is too fast for something like a 44, but maybe not so for a 25.


I think I will try FFFg and borrow a Chrony, if my speeds are not as high as expected I will look at testing with some FFFFg.

I guess I am the first one on here trying this sort of thing, makes me feel good that I am being innovative but a little weird too. At least BP is not like smokeless and a little more does not make huge differences in pressure.
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Right you are, the pressures won't create a grenade especially in a .25. As LD mentioned above (and sounds like you know well already), "no airspace" is the key.

I've run 3Fg in .45-70 and even in my .54 partly to see how it worked and partly because 2F was impossible to find up here for while without paying shocking shipping costs. No issues at all, same principles apply to your .25. I wouldn't say it was any cleaner in either.... In fact we ran 2F in the 4" bore cannon this year under a concrete "ball" (ran out of 1F) - no worries. Now, 3F in the 4" I'd be getting concerned, 4F might be gettin' dangerous I don't know and not sure I wanna find out :)
 
NorthCoastBigBore said:
Right you are, the pressures won't create a grenade especially in a .25. As LD mentioned above (and sounds like you know well already), "no airspace" is the key.

I've run 3Fg in .45-70 and even in my .54 partly to see how it worked and partly because 2F was impossible to find up here for while without paying shocking shipping costs. No issues at all, same principles apply to your .25. I wouldn't say it was any cleaner in either.... In fact we ran 2F in the 4" bore cannon this year under a concrete "ball" (ran out of 1F) - no worries. Now, 3F in the 4" I'd be getting concerned, 4F might be gettin' dangerous I don't know and not sure I wanna find out :)
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I have a friend who loads a lot of blackpowder, he helped me out with my first loading for a 44 Webley, compression is key with BP or you make a bomb instead of a cartridge, I got that for sure.

I have to see how long the bullets actually are and how much powder fits in the case with the compression I need to have, since the 25 Stevens Rimfire was originally designed as a BP cartridge I can essentially just load the case and put a bullet on top, from what I understand.

The rim of the case fits nicely in a 30 Carbine shell holder and a 25 ACP seating die will seat the bullet and put a light roll crimp on the case, I have already tested that out.

As long as I do not smack the thing when I have the primer in the shell holder I should not set off any primer, they are tougher than many people give them credit.

This is going to be fun, 3F or 4F by the sounds of it.
 
Fox said:
I have a friend who loads a lot of blackpowder, he helped me out with my first loading for a 44 Webley, compression is key with BP or you make a bomb instead of a cartridge, I got that for sure.

I have to see how long the bullets actually are and how much powder fits in the case with the compression I need to have, since the 25 Stevens Rimfire was originally designed as a BP cartridge I can essentially just load the case and put a bullet on top, from what I understand.

The rim of the case fits nicely in a 30 Carbine shell holder and a 25 ACP seating die will seat the bullet and put a light roll crimp on the case, I have already tested that out.

As long as I do not smack the thing when I have the primer in the shell holder I should not set off any primer, they are tougher than many people give them credit.

This is going to be fun, 3F or 4F by the sounds of it.
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Oh yessir it is fun. Addicting too, you'll find yourself (you probably do already) wandering out to the shop instead of doing work, chores or even watching TV or whatever lol. Sounds like you're well set up and headed in the right direction.

Do keep us posted how it works out, I'm interested in hearing chrony results if you can line one up.
 
NorthCoastBigBore said:
Oh yessir it is fun. Addicting too, you'll find yourself (you probably do already) wandering out to the shop instead of doing work, chores or even watching TV or whatever lol. Sounds like you're well set up and headed in the right direction.

Do keep us posted how it works out, I'm interested in hearing chrony results if you can line one up.
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We have a new baby at home so the money for all of this is spread out over quite a bit. I inherited the gun about 5 years ago, had to find original sights for it, that took about a year, then researched and planned things out, another couple years before ordering the dies then I had to wait 2 months to get the dies in. Now I need to get a bullet that will work, the only stuff I can find is a little under weight (50gr vs 65gr) but that will be ok, I have found them in the US as airgun pellets, so that is my next thing.

The 44 was also inherited from my grandpa, that was another pile of work and I still need a mount to safely shoot it for the first time in a long time, I don't trust it until it is shot with a string.

A lot of work added to the very long list, ha ha, but it is fun.
 
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