270 win Weatherby Vanguard s2 SS

rooster22

rooster22

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I'ld rather be Hunting somewhere in Eastern Ontari
I would like to know if anyone has developed a load for the 270win weatherby vanguard s2. I would also like to know if your rifle has a very tight chamber like mine. I am having some issues with my development load constantly hitting the lands, and my groups are not consistent because of that. I thought I had developed the final reload but finding out I'm hitting the lands and groups not consistent . I'm using hornady 2740 150 COAL 3.210. I have brought the COAL down to 3.180 and some of the bullets are still touching the lands. I'm not sure I can go any shorter I don't see the crimp ring anymore. And my charge is at the high end . I have spent a considerable amount of time and money developing this load and I'm really getting discouraged. I would like to know what projectile as well as COAL anyone else has developed for this rifle and to see if others experienced a short chamber on the vanguards s2. I'm thinking that I may have to go to a the hornady round nose which will have a suggested COAL of 3.150,
My factory rounds are FC 150 soft point with a COAL of 3.125 average. And they fit all day long and shoot decently, thinking I should of just stuck with the factory loads, which was originally what I was going to do until I got ambitious and wanted to build up a tac driver. I have developed loads for other rifles and have not had this much of a problem with them as far as hitting the lands.

Any sound advice would be appreciated.
 
I have a Vanguard S2 270, which I have loaded for from the very day I acquired it. [Never seen a factory round]
I am quite certain that my COL is quite a bit longer than what you are describing. I shoot the 140 Accubond or Partition.
I am away from home ATM, but will check later and get back.
I also question that touching the lands should give you erratic results.
Is there a chance your cases are too long?? That can cause trouble with consistency. [Trim to 2.530"]
D.
 
My .223 Vanguard has a pretty tight chamber, but the leade is fine.
OAL doesn't really mean anything really, some rifles I load with very little neck tension and allow the rifling to seat the bullet and get best accuracy that way. Others like a 55gr pill in a .243 are seated a looong way off the lands but still shoot MOA or better.
It may just not like those 150's or your powder charge, try 130's and work something up. You don't say what powder you are using either...for my Browning 270, IMR4831 and 130 accubonds are the best combo, also using Norma 30'06 brass sized down for this.
 
I tried the IMR4831 and had no tight groups , researched that powder as well as H4831 was the most popular for .270. I like the W760 in my .308 so I have built up with that one. My research tells me that if your on the lands you can get over pressure and usually 5000ths to 8000ths jump is the ideal COAL. FYI I have got more than one group MOA .850 and .950. Should I just go back to the range and keep shooting even if some of the bullets hit the lands, like I said about 40% of the time they touch.
 
Seating into lands is a bench rest technique, it's​ quite safe if you are chasing accuracy and not velocity. If you are at max charges, that might be what is throwing everything off. Half the bullets jump, half the bullets touch. Maybe shoot groups with just the jumps and just the rubs and see which one is better and go from there.
What primers are you using? Should be mag primers with that ball powder if you want more consistency.
 
Hitzy said:
Seating into lands is a bench rest technique, it's​ quite safe if you are chasing accuracy and not velocity.
What primers are you using? Should be mag primers with that ball powder if you want more consistency.
Click to expand...

Yes I'm using mag CCI250. Should I just not worry about the lands and go back to the range and site in my scope with the load that I"ve got the best groups with? I'm certain I've done everything correct it's jus my COAL I'm not sure of considering only 40% touch the land should I not worry about that then I'm chasing accuracy more than velocity.
 
bULLETS INTO THE RIFLING IS OK IN A TARGET RIFLE, USING MATCH BULLETS. I would not do it in a hunting rifle with hunting bullets.

With hunting bullets you might have a box of bullets made on 3 different machines. The ogive location can easily vary by 20 thou, so your engagement will vary all over the place (and pressure, too).

Back off 30 thou from your current setting, as see if things improve.

I agree with magnum primers with 460.
 
Ganderite said:
bULLETS INTO THE RIFLING IS OK IN A TARGET RIFLE, USING MATCH BULLETS. I would not do it in a hunting rifle with hunting bullets.

With hunting bullets you might have a box of bullets made on 3 different machines. The ogive location can easily vary by 20 thou, so your engagement will vary all over the place (and pressure, too).

Back off 30 thou from your current setting, as see if things improve.

I agree with magnum primers with 460.
Click to expand...

I"ve seated a round at the min of 3.180 and it still touches, I worry that seating the bullet to deep will give me dangerously high pressures, Hornady said not to worry about (3.180) because the rifle already handles the 51 g I'v put in it. But is it ok to go down in coal more than that I wonder.
 
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rooster22 said:
I"ve seated a round at the min of 3.180 and it still touches, I worry that seating the bullet to deep will give me dangerously high pressures, Hornady said not to worry about (3.180) because the rifle already handles the 51 g I'v put in it. But is it ok to go down in coal more than that I wonder.
Click to expand...

The minimum OAL is the length that prevents the bullet from falling into the case.

You may have gone about this load development backwards.

The FIRST thing to do is to determine the COAL with Your rifle and YOUR bullet. I usually make a note in my log of 2 OALs - the one that touches the rifling and then the OAL that is 20 thou shorter.

For a hunting rifle I only test the shorter load. For a target rifle, I test 5 thou longer than touching and 20 thou off. I load a variety of loads in 0.5 gr increments, to see if the gun has a strong preference.

You started making ammo without first determining the OAL that is off the rifling. Why? This is basic need to know info. Unless the loading manual guys borrowed your rifle, the OAL in the book has nothing to do with you.

Seating the bullets deeper will reduce pressure, not increase, if your bullets are in the rifling.

But you should never have found yourself with a hot load (over-loaded according to my book) without first sorting out the OAL.

I suggest you seat 30 thou deeper, back off 2 gr and load a survey of 5 shots each, in 0.5 increments, back to your 51 gr.
 
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Ganderite said:
The minimum OAL is the length that prevents the bullet from falling into the case.

You may have gone about this load development backwards.

The FIRST thing to do is to determine the COAL with Your rifle and YOUR bullet. I usually make a note in my log of 2 OALs - the one that touches the rifling and then the OAL that is 20 thou shorter.

For a hunting rifle I only test the shorter load. For a target rifle, I test 5 thou longer than touching and 20 thou off. I load a variety of loads in 0.5 gr increments, to see if the gun has a strong preference.

You started making ammo without first determining the OAL that is off the rifling. Why? This is basic need to know info. Unless the loading manual guys borrowed your rifle, the OAL in the book has nothing to do with you.

Seating the bullets deeper will reduce pressure, not increase, if your bullets are in the rifling.

But you should never have found yourself with a hot load (over-loaded according to my book) without first sorting out the OAL.

I suggest you seat 30 thou deeper, back off 2 gr and load a survey of 45 shots each, in 0.5 increments, back to your 51 gr.
Click to expand...

I guess I can blame it on not enough experience. I've always thought I was suppose to follow the COAL from the loading manual. My initial development gave me .850" group with 48.5 and 50.9 with the 3.210 thought I would keep going with the hot load for velocity since I'm developing a hunting load. I ended up tweeking it up to 51g cause on my final testing it performed better. Tested a bunch of COAL and found that shorter COAL performed better. Decided to due up identical loads for siting in and found that many of the 3.210 were touching the lands which I had not noticed before. And now even at 3.180 some still touch. I'm at the point where I may bring the rifle into my smiths shop and have him cast the chamber and possibly ream the rifling which Hornady has suggested because they say at 3.180 the 2470 150g projectiles should fit in the chamber without touch.
 
Dogleg said:
Whoa there, slow down. You're thinking about throating your rifle to match your manual? That's a bit like cutting your toes off to make your boots fit. ;)
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Ya, your right just talked to my smith and he said keep seating the bullet deeper until it doesn't touch as long as there is jump the pressure will go down not up as I thought. Like what Ganderite said.
 
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