30 06 for a 30 caliber precission rifle
- Thread starter AlderTK
- Start date
The ballistic gain of 30-06 over .308 is nil. Similar projectile weights yield around 150 FPS and 200 Ft/lbs gains over similar .308 loads. All that gain and only a half inch worth of extra powder and case, not to mention an increase in recoil. Sounds like a real advantage.
TDC
TDC
Lots of guys doing some pretty impressive things with .30-06 with modern propellants and match bullets. TONS of info on this on snipershide.com . Look up members Montanna Marine and USSR. M.M. is shooting everything from 110 gr. V-MAX up to 240 gr. SMK in his.
Very viable option if you're looking for performance between .308 WIn. and .300 WM.
With bullet weights 190 gr. and up, the '06 easily trumps it's '08 counterpart.
Very viable option if you're looking for performance between .308 WIn. and .300 WM.
With bullet weights 190 gr. and up, the '06 easily trumps it's '08 counterpart.
Last edited:
+1 on what 2bad4U2 said.
- Location
- Saskatchewan
Take a look at what any of the US snipers did from pretty much the start of Vietnam through until about the 90's.
The 30/06 will outperform the 308 from the standpoint of ballistics. It will not outperform the 308 as far as accuracy is concerned. The advantage of the 30/06 is with the heavier bullets (I could drive 200 MKs at 2750) but recoil becomes a factor. In addition, it's easy to come up with a legitimate 1/2 moa 308 rifle and load but not nearly so easy to do the same with a 30/06.
FWIW, this is not theorizing on my part. I've tried it and unable to believe the results, tried it again later on. I can make an honest 1/4 moa 308. I can't do that in 30/06. By the way, I think both the 303 British and the 30/40 Krag are capable of better accuracy than the 30/06. Yes, I've tried them too.
When I want to build a rifle to win with, I'll build a 308. When I want to try something different and don't care about winning, I'll try another 30/06.
By the way, TDC, it would seem to be tough to say the ballistic advantage is nil and 150 fps in the same sentence without recognizing the conflicting assertions. Regards, Bill.
FWIW, this is not theorizing on my part. I've tried it and unable to believe the results, tried it again later on. I can make an honest 1/4 moa 308. I can't do that in 30/06. By the way, I think both the 303 British and the 30/40 Krag are capable of better accuracy than the 30/06. Yes, I've tried them too.
When I want to build a rifle to win with, I'll build a 308. When I want to try something different and don't care about winning, I'll try another 30/06.
By the way, TDC, it would seem to be tough to say the ballistic advantage is nil and 150 fps in the same sentence without recognizing the conflicting assertions. Regards, Bill.
I suppose that if the '06 chamber were long throated to allow the bullet to be seated out, powder capacity would be increased. This could be an advantage with the heavier target bullets.
If brass were weighed, and measured for runout, etc., a batch of match grade brass could be obtained.
It is possible that under certain conditions enhanced ballistic performance could be more important than absolute rifle accuracy.
Then again, if one wanted to experiment with different cartridges, there are other .30s with capacities greater than the .308. The .30-.338 has had a following, for example.
If brass were weighed, and measured for runout, etc., a batch of match grade brass could be obtained.
It is possible that under certain conditions enhanced ballistic performance could be more important than absolute rifle accuracy.
Then again, if one wanted to experiment with different cartridges, there are other .30s with capacities greater than the .308. The .30-.338 has had a following, for example.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
I built up a 308 a few years back off a used Palma barrel of unknown make. Only thing we knew was it was Cdn manf with a gorgeous bore.
The action was a Parker Hale midland which worked surprisingly well. As a 308, it put 155gr Amax into sub 1" groups at 200yds on a consistent basis.
Got bored of that and decided I wanted a LR hunting rig. Looking at various wildcats, I decided on the 30GIBBS (improved 30-06). In the same barrel but with a now shorter effective barrel length (reamer was run deeper), the rifle continued to shoot as it did as a 308 but now using 165gr SST's.
I have a nice 5 rds cluster shot at 250yds which measures 1". Velocity was within spitting distance of the RSAUM.
I have had several 308's over the years and they have always shot well with good components/barrels. My last Douglas barreled Enfield would put 5rds of 168gr Nosler J4 into 1/2" or so at 200yds if I did my part. There is no doubt the 308 shoots.
I have also had a 30-06 hunting rifle which did very well so don't discount this case.
If you want SR bughole groups, the 30BR is the king of the heap. If you want to go longer AND are willing to get an appropriate reamer, the 30-06 and its wildcats will prove very accurate.
The 30-06 run at 'modern' pressures will allow you to push heavier bullets approaching magnum performance. You simply cannot do this in the 308 without some very creative engineering. This gives you a real world ballistic advantage and more hitting power.
I think the 208gr Amax in a properly chambered 30-06 or improved wildcat will give you near magnum performance and similar accuracy.
But then, it really isn't an '06 anymore...
Jerry
The action was a Parker Hale midland which worked surprisingly well. As a 308, it put 155gr Amax into sub 1" groups at 200yds on a consistent basis.
Got bored of that and decided I wanted a LR hunting rig. Looking at various wildcats, I decided on the 30GIBBS (improved 30-06). In the same barrel but with a now shorter effective barrel length (reamer was run deeper), the rifle continued to shoot as it did as a 308 but now using 165gr SST's.
I have a nice 5 rds cluster shot at 250yds which measures 1". Velocity was within spitting distance of the RSAUM.
I have had several 308's over the years and they have always shot well with good components/barrels. My last Douglas barreled Enfield would put 5rds of 168gr Nosler J4 into 1/2" or so at 200yds if I did my part. There is no doubt the 308 shoots.
I have also had a 30-06 hunting rifle which did very well so don't discount this case.
If you want SR bughole groups, the 30BR is the king of the heap. If you want to go longer AND are willing to get an appropriate reamer, the 30-06 and its wildcats will prove very accurate.
The 30-06 run at 'modern' pressures will allow you to push heavier bullets approaching magnum performance. You simply cannot do this in the 308 without some very creative engineering. This gives you a real world ballistic advantage and more hitting power.
I think the 208gr Amax in a properly chambered 30-06 or improved wildcat will give you near magnum performance and similar accuracy.
But then, it really isn't an '06 anymore...
Jerry
From the Sierra Exterior Balllistics website ... (with my italics and bold):
The 308 is an extremely easy cartridge to reload. Like the 222 Remington and 6mm PPC, the 308 is an extremely accurate cartridge. It probably is the most inherently accurate 30 caliber commercial cartridge ever produced. As a competitive cartridge, the 308 has been used in benchrest, highpower, long-range, silhouette, and 300-meter international matches. Few, if any, other cartridges have been so successful in such a wide range of shooting disciplines. It has also become quite popular as a hunting cartridge and is adequate for most North American big game species, particularly deer-sized game. Though frequently compared to it, the 308 cannot match the performance of the 30-06. The difference between the two, however, is insignificant unless bullets of 180 grains or heavier are discussed.The 30-06’s greater capacity and ability to use slower powders give it an undeniable edge.
Like Bill said ... recoil gets to be the problem when you start to go for the 30-06 advantage. My gut feel is that due to the current popularity of the .308, it means that there are more quality 'competition' parts available for the .308 than the 30-06 (and yes, I shoot a .308 too).
The 308 is an extremely easy cartridge to reload. Like the 222 Remington and 6mm PPC, the 308 is an extremely accurate cartridge. It probably is the most inherently accurate 30 caliber commercial cartridge ever produced. As a competitive cartridge, the 308 has been used in benchrest, highpower, long-range, silhouette, and 300-meter international matches. Few, if any, other cartridges have been so successful in such a wide range of shooting disciplines. It has also become quite popular as a hunting cartridge and is adequate for most North American big game species, particularly deer-sized game. Though frequently compared to it, the 308 cannot match the performance of the 30-06. The difference between the two, however, is insignificant unless bullets of 180 grains or heavier are discussed.The 30-06’s greater capacity and ability to use slower powders give it an undeniable edge.
Like Bill said ... recoil gets to be the problem when you start to go for the 30-06 advantage. My gut feel is that due to the current popularity of the .308, it means that there are more quality 'competition' parts available for the .308 than the 30-06 (and yes, I shoot a .308 too).
As I mentioned above. With factory loads, there is no advantage. The following was taken from Remington's website as well as Federal's website.
Remington
http://www.remington.com/products/a...allistics_results.aspx?data=PRC3006C*PRC308WC
Federal
http://www.federalcartridge.com/ballistics/Ammo_Search.aspx?act=choose&firearm=1&s1=1
The stats for Federal:
Velocity(muzzle) 200yds 500yds
.308 168gr smk BTHP 2650 2277 1778
30-06 168gr smk BTHP 2700 2324 1819
Energy (muzzle) 200yds 500yds
.308 168gr smk BTHP 2619 1935 1179
30-06 168gr smk HBTP 2719 2015 1234
Not exactly a huge gain. Handloads are very much a different game. Out of the box, you're wasting your money unless you intend to reload.
TDC
Remington
http://www.remington.com/products/a...allistics_results.aspx?data=PRC3006C*PRC308WC
Federal
http://www.federalcartridge.com/ballistics/Ammo_Search.aspx?act=choose&firearm=1&s1=1
The stats for Federal:
Velocity(muzzle) 200yds 500yds
.308 168gr smk BTHP 2650 2277 1778
30-06 168gr smk BTHP 2700 2324 1819
Energy (muzzle) 200yds 500yds
.308 168gr smk BTHP 2619 1935 1179
30-06 168gr smk HBTP 2719 2015 1234
Not exactly a huge gain. Handloads are very much a different game. Out of the box, you're wasting your money unless you intend to reload.
TDC
