30-06s.... Love/Hate/Re-evaluate

Sounds like a lot of fun and certainly productive Don_Parsons .

Did you order the Pacific Tool and Gauge .308 bolt here in Canada or did you have to go through the import BS ?

Have a blast and wear gloves !!



Don_Parsons said:
Ye Ha

It's range day with 2 fantastic 30/06 rifles.

Rifle #1 is a Remmy LR Heavy weight Varmint class that is part way into its custom build.

Rifle #2 was a Remmy 308 that under gone the the full work over, the only thing that is factory is the action less the Pacific Tool and Gage bolt, trigger, bull barrel, Extra long laminated wood stock. I class it as the 30/06 short case since both rifles pitch the 178gr'ers at the same velocities.
The 30/06 short case is 1gr off max as the real Ought-6 is de-tuned by 3.5grs.
Both are seeing ft-per second values of 2675 ish give or take the +/-'s.

Range day is all about the consistant set-up form instead of actually shooting,,, and if shots are launched down range,,, they will be heading down there in the vertical line-up.

No need to shoot groups as that will come in time. Off season is the best, it gives all of us time wined down from harvest mode, and practic up for long range stuff.

Most of the load development stuff is sorted, but there is always little tweaks here and there that benefit tighter groups when needed.

The heated shelter is a plus, lots of room, and my in-field ammo system travels with me.
From Sun up to Sun down as we share lots of BS stories that are all true. LOL.

Kinda like sharing part of the dream with like minded folks.

Range days in Western Canada along the Eastern Slopes are awesome.
Hot coffee and more food then we can eat,,, later this winter the rifles will catch a ride into the mountains of snow on the quad with tracks.

We will find some long valley with a frozen rock face as the out crops become our wall of granite chipping stone.
The summer time we head back to the clay bank shoots so we can recover the bullets that show us the velocity of impact.

Most of them are pretty messed up from 100 to 600 meters.
They kind of resemble bullets at 700 to 900.
Depending on the clay and sand seems at 1 km to 1500 the bullets look pretty much intact.

At 1700 meters you'd never know it was shot from a rifle less the rifling groves.

Sun is just breaking, got to run.
Just being out there puts things into perspective, that's what really counts.

Old school Ought-6 is the way it is, no going back and diffenaty not forward as this size of cartrage is just enough to pull it off in learning skills and good times.

What else could a person ask for.

Din
Click to expand...
 
The Pacific Tool and Gage bolt I ordered over the phone.

My Gun Smith friend /good friend searches things out on the Web page, then calls them direct.

He has the slide in action inserts so he knows what size of bolt shank to order,,, each action is a few thousands different. """ my Remmy 308 """ is a 702 snug fit,,, the trick is to get rid of the loose slop at the back of the action.

Example:
The rifle is on target ready to rock, the trigger is pulled and a few things start to happen,,, old school actions / ok,,, most of them.
Hopefully the brass shoulder is sized right, that helps keep the bolts in the loose but firm spot so the rear of the "locking lugs" are evenly snug on the action stops.
My friend tures the actions before the barrel installs and a few other things.

Anyways, the trigger is pulled at the forward moving firing pin slams forward, primer ignites the powder, now the bolt is going out wards to the shooter end.
Normally, not always,,, the back of the bolt goes up-wards,,, ok,,, lets think of the bolt shank as a tuning fork "so to speak."

A proper size / fitted / aligned / set / tuned / dialed in / trued / bolt, action, barrel face, lugs, shank, allow for the optimum launch.

Most folks don't need to worry about stuff like this since they don't press the long range shooting thing very often.
Most factory rifles are great for what they are designed for. Harvesting of game, Varmint / Predictor control, or the general shooting range days.

But those of us that choose to push the limits,,, we like things sorted.
We know one thing,,, sort out all the variables of the rifle,,, that way it is ready to perform at its maximum abilities and capabilities.

It basically elements those factors,,, "if" it "could" lead to poor accuracy. Build this out of the picture is only a option... A Pro-active aproch eliminating the unknowns so they aren't there at the firing line.

(I/ we) don't need to much going on at one time on the 308's or 30/06's, any rifles for that matter.
Like the one artical above suggested.
Address the main stuff first that (could or is) the leading cause to in-accuracy / shot-placement / constancy / and net worth.

We know that the 30/06 struggles from the get go. That dam BC is perhaps one area we're up against.
The 6.5 & 7mm rock that category,,, of course us 30 cal folks can close this gap by shooting longer bullets, but that adds other things that "might" need some thoughts.

Recoil might be 1, and slow ft-per seconds,,, the Windy days remind us of this.
Yes that a slow 30 cal bullet will drift more then a fast light 6.5 or 7mm,,, purhaps folks that choose these calibers have a clear advantages in the long long range department,,, but even they have their work cut out for them since "ALL" trajectories drift.

This is long distance. The average person with a old school Ought-6 won't have to factor much into this since "most" harvests are "normally" with in X distance.
One would think that folks that are going the long range thing would put in there time.

I never have / nor will go past my X range of self capabilities at critter Harvesting.
My hands are not steady in the day to day out-doors.
I don't have the luxury of time to set-up a solid shooting platform. And lots of other unknown factors.
Each to their own my friends. My plan is having shooting sports and game Harvesting in 2 categories.

Any-who, I ran into a fellow from Calgary,,, I meet him this fall at the shooting range,,, he shoots the mid size cases of fast tactical PRS competition shooting matched.
He shared some Intresting ideas on shooting format, technical data, and other ideas along with 2 things that tightened up """his groups,""" primers and neck tension.
Of course these are areas that he is addressing.
I'm not going down that road since I'm working on """shooting form""" as my main focus point.

It's hard to stay on track with so much going on, it's mind boggling at times.

So the key word today for us 30/06 folks is relax.
just relax and take on 1 idea at a time.
Keep it simple "Smart". LOL. (KISS)

I hope I get more weekends at the range, along with some runs out West this winter.

Don
 
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Your welcome, the bolt I order has:

Long strait arm.
Tear Drop nob.
Large 7 cut lapping swirls for looks
Small firing pin hole.
Fast spring & hardened small firing pin.
Extractor & plunger kit.

Those that "choose" a custom Bolt, go on line and see the many options. Lots to pick from.

The short case 30/06 (308 winchester) is supporting one of these Pacific Tool and Gage bolts.

My 308 improved (30/06) will see one at re-barrel time.
That way the action gets trued & lapped as the whole package works better when all the puzzles are sorted.

One less thing to deal with in the mixs of alot.

My gun Smith friend suggested that these areas make all rifles rock.

Custom everything. LOL.
And keep it frugal.

Match grade barrel, Jewel trigger, trued Acton, a top quality stock, and proper fitted bolt.
Pretty much the whole rifle.

If the rifle is built 2 to 3 X's better then us,,, """the shooter,,,""" then only 4 things need sorting.

Ammo, shooting form, the all set up, and wind.
Those categories alone are a mile long and a inch deep.

Our task is to find those areas that benefit us the most.
1 mile deep to a inch wide in categories that benefit the whole package as 1.

Don
 
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Don_Parsons,

Yeah, the bolt options from PTG are several and need to know the details.

How do you find the Jewel trigger in the field ? I've read they often don't take well to getting down and dirty in the field and Timney or older Walker triggers survive a bit better inn the mud as it were.

I try to take my 700's far as I can as well but at a certain point I think it's worth getting Insite or the like to take over and build from scratch. My GAP is crazy accurate but often I'm amazed how well my slightly tuned (by Tac-Ord) Rem. LTR keeps up for about 1/4 the cost.

Thanks for the bolt and general rifle details. Always fun to read about what others are doing & achieving.
 
Most of the custom inventory is in, then I'll add one more optic to the mix.

My rifle has the quick change rail system, what ever scope I plan on using that day only takes a few seconds to switch out, it's just that simple.

I'm doing my home work long before spending the funds, that way I find a optic retrical that is easy to use, and is fundamentaly easy to calibrate for different shooting distances.
MV to 600 meters.
Dial up to work with the 600 to 1000m.
Dial up again for 1000m to beyond.

The nice thing about this system is being able see the point of aim instead of guesstimat using the non clustered Tree that gives no way points for fast accurate sightings with out having to dial back and forth.

If I start with this system this year, I should be able us it in practical operations later on.

https://www.horusvision.com/demos.php

All rifles benefit from these new optic systems for those that choose to push the limits of beyond.

Don,
 
Good choice, I like the Horus stuff as well. Have an H25 in a USO Sn3. Next one will probably have the H59.

What are you using for a quick detach rail system ? I've stuck with "standard" rings & base so far, albeit quality stuff (ATRS, Nightforce, Badger, Seekins etc. etc).
Been thinking of maybe a QD Larue mount.

Don_Parsons said:
Most of the custom inventory is in, then I'll add one more optic to the mix.

My rifle has the quick change rail system, what ever scope I plan on using that day only takes a few seconds to switch out, it's just that simple.

I'm doing my home work long before spending the funds, that way I find a optic retrical that is easy to use, and is fundamentaly easy to calibrate for different shooting distances.
MV to 600 meters.
Dial up to work with the 600 to 1000m.
Dial up again for 1000m to beyond.

The nice thing about this system is being able see the point of aim instead of guesstimat using the non clustered Tree that gives no way points for fast accurate sightings with out having to dial back and forth.

If I start with this system this year, I should be able us it in practical operations later on.

https://www.horusvision.com/demos.php

All rifles benefit from these new optic systems for those that choose to push the limits of beyond.

Don,
Click to expand...
 
Yes to the Hours system, I'm scouting out the improvements to the H59 optics.

The Tremor 3 system, it has seen some fast track ideas added to faster sighting in, and allows for .2 millys that allow for tighter precision.

https://www.horusvision.com/demos.php

Both rifles have long 1 peace Weatherby / Leopold 20 MOA rails with the exact same spacer groves,,, all 3 of the scopes I have are set to fit into the groves on both rifle mounts.

That way all optics can be switched back and forth onto either rifle.

I use rings with the finger tighten screws, then use a coin as I lightly tap them into place and slowly finish off tightening down.

Next spring I'm going to the thumb flip lock system rings.
I'm keeping my eyes open for a 2.5-21x56 optic scope.
That way I won't have to buy another scope after that.
Side mount parallax and solid feel / bold dial up and down clicks.
That way I don't have to look at dial since I can count off the numbers by feeling the adjustments.

It it doesn't have crisp clicks, then it ain't coming home.
My Sightron scope has spoiled me. LOL.

My Wildcat Composite Ver-Tech graphite stock is in, the next part of the build is soon to get underway.

Ye Ha

Long live the old school 30/06.

Don

Al
 
For some reason my T3 reignited my passion for the cartridge, basically the rifle and cartridge made me look good! Packs ample punch and I seem to shoot it better than .308... perhaps it's the recoil characteristics?
 
Just returned from our local shooting center with a bit of information on the Hours Tremor 3 retrical system.
Apparently there is an exclusive Patten on it that is some-what pricey. $500 ish in Usd or $750 ish Cnd funds.

The EBR-2C how ever does not have this added cost.
I did some research on line to see what is what, and what are the "average" precision match shooters are using.

It looks like the EBR is holding its own.
Yes, it has its advantages same as the Tremor, but both kinda have a few real small disadvantages.

One thing that comes to mind is optic viewing cluster, a bit more on the Tremor then EBR.

This is not a factor for me when Harvesting season since I set my scopes on the lowest setting where they remain till that part of the season is over.
The tree or box pattern doesn't stand out hardly in the lowest power setting which is good.

As I mention in one of the above posts,,, I'm a up close game harvester, if I need range I use Texas Windage, I quickly look at that point to "confirm" my shot placememt then let it rip.
This is the advantage of keeping the harvests up close.

Then why, why would a old school 30/06 dude like me want to drop the funds on a retrical system if I'm only using it for "conformation" shot placement then actual using it in its full format...

Simple, it will get used for general target shooting, iron silhouette, a small portion of F Class, and later on for PRS challange shooting "when" it happens.

EBR is partly like Nikon BDC retrical system,,, but the EBR is way more re-find with tighter tolerance horizontal and vertical,,, 1 Mill Rads with Five .2 Millys between them allows for more precise precision at its finest once things get past the 600m mark and beyond.

I would really like the Hours Tremor, but the extra cost is not worth its value to me.

The EBR still offers a broad range of Windage that I don't have right now unless I do the dial up, this option will speed things up since the Milly's hash marks can be used if the winds are intermittent from right to left.
That way the horizontal can remain centered.

Using a hash mark retrical will make it easy to dance back and forth between the iron silhouettes at 100 to 600 meters.

Don't get me wrong, dialing up for F class shooting is ok, but going live with multiple changes is easier and faster using the retrical hash mark system.

At least for me that is.

Don
 
I'm glad I'm taking my time researching my build.

It took a few years to game plan the move of finding a cartrage that would serve my needs. Lots of cartrages to choose from, and no clear path to get me there.

This cartrage can do this, that cartrage can do that, this bullet has the best BC, those bullets are the best for hunting. Big case with lots of powder, small case with out much Wack down range.
This trajectory flies like a dam but is to slow,,, those are faster,,, but wreck to much meat.
Short action is smoother then long action, long actions are not as accurate. One is heavy, the other is light.
The pages were endless. Web pages of info, YouTube videos out the Ying Yang, and more firearm reviews then I could shake a stick at.

Day by day my list of cartrages became smaller and smaller, 2 stacks of cartrage papers stayed on top of my desk.
The main pile to go threw, the 1's on the "maybe" not for-sure list,,, and the stack in the garbage pale. Once they were in category, they were done.
Ok, one peace of paper all crumpled up into a ball was returned to the stack of "maybe's."

The days turned into months, by this time a pattern was slowly starting to show up.
The something to plink with was always at the top of my "Self Preferences" list, along with iron silhouette shooting would be part of it to.
A bit of long range shooting with exceptions to push past the 1000 km mark and try to take it to the mile,,, of coures this was just a thought at the time.
Big game Harvesting was and is in this mix, nothing beyond my shooting capabilities, yet just enough to reach out there if the opertunity allows for it. Kinda like having a bit more cartrage then I really need.

Crunch time had my list to these favs.
243/ 6mm, 6.5 Creedmoor, 25/06, 270, 7mm-08, 308 win, 30/06, 7mm Mag, and short Mag.

I spread each information gathering sheets across the desk, all 9 of them,,, 1 of these cateteages was going to become my all rounder.
The top & bottom were taken out on "MY" list. 243/6mm's are tack drivers, they will always be part of my mix no matter what,,, but owning a few of them over 4 to 6 years as well as hunting with them in Western Canada put a thought of under powered in my mind when going after the thick skins,,, Elk, Moose, and Bears. Very capable, but not in my hands,,, not owning a 6.5 Creedmoor made me nervous, so being pig headed I took it out as well.

The 7 mags had me thinking, but owning a 300 Weatherby and Winchester at the time didn't warrant me going that direction either, so both of them were taken off the top.

So I was left with 25/06, 270, 7mm-08, 308, and 30/06, by this time my list was getting pretty thin at this point.

I never owned a 25/06 or 7mm-08, I can't say anything about them either since they never showed up in my massive collection of firearms,,, plenty of 270's, 308's, and 30/06's came and gone over the years.
The last of those mid size cases was the 308 winchester,,, I liked this cartrage, but it was not really my favorite for big game,,, I'm sure it had enough to tackle the job, but it would start to struggle past the 1 km mark,,, more so beyond that.

The heavy bullets from a 30/06 barely cut it past the 1200m.
The only bullet from the 30/06 that is able to reach out to the 1700m line that is still packing enough SD is the Hornady ELD-M 168 & 179gr'ers.
Yes they are well below stable flight path after the 1200 mark, but even then on those calm days they some how hold their own. LOL.

Like I mentioned, very rarely do I shot out to that distance, but so far so good.

It took me two 30/06's to get things happening.
The first was a all most brand new Ruger M77 Mark II with a 22" stainless steel barrel, it was a nice rifle, but it lacked in the department of a smooth trigger, and the after-market Timmy trigger would only get it into the 1/2 lb / 8oz category,,, not good enough for me since I need 2 to 4 oz at range.
The rifle could of been customized, but over all the build project off this platform was just not practical, so I sold it off and bought the Remmy LR Heavy weight Varmint class rifle.

The build was underway.
Jewel match grade trigger, zero stress bedding, Henery Remple F Class bypod rest, and I mounted my F Class optics on to it to find out what I had.

About 10 shots and it was onto the 600M gong,,, after 450 ish rounds, I did a quick non copper clean out since I wanted to keep the barrel fowled up, and it was off to the Eastern Slopes of Alberta for the 1k.
Once I seen a few 9" ish groups,,, I knew then I ended up with a winner,,, this was done with p*** poor hand loads on top of that. Forgiving fore sure.
Later this Sumner I did the Southern BC 1700M clay bank shoot. Ye Ha. All with in a 16" disk. "No Wind" but hotter then the hubs of 4@!!.

I'll be honest here, the Remmy LR is a pretty accurate rifle, but it's a son of a ***** packing it around in the bush for Harvesting season. So the Wildcat Composites Ver-Tech stock is in, now the time has come to fit this into the 1 gun category.
1 stock for Harvesting, the other for target shooting.
The factory Remmy Bell / Carlson stock will soon see the lead weights added to it for F Open.
10 kgs max. My main main target rifle for F/ FTR is 8.5 kgs Max. My bad on 1 of the above posts.

Anyways, the search for my all round optics is underway.
If I could build my own optic sight, it would be a 2 or 2.5 power on up to 20 or 24.
A Hours retrical would be nice, but this is still in the planning stages.
That way I would never have to touch the scope again.
Solid click dial-up or range distance by hash marks using the retrical.
All win win if I get it right.

A few more tweeks here and there and this rifle will be sorted.

Any Who, all the above cartrages I talked about are dam fine, they to have a category they fit into well. Not for one moment did I not try my best to some how fit them into my personal category,,, but that dammed old school 30/06 got in the way.

At least I have something to work off of, it will last me for many years, and the doorway of hot or fast loads verses soft and mild are possible.

Burn some barrel life out when I want to, and save on it for the normal range days.

Pal Don from Western Canada
 
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I enjoyed many different cartrages over the years, probably to many as I only mastered 3 or 4 of them.

This year is a real reward returning to the 1 main main rifle, it gives me a chance to learn & remember the bullet flight path & how to utilized the BDC retrical.

The fall harvest paided off nice since it was point and shoot.
I didn't need the optic retrical ranging system, but it was there if I needed it.

I see the swing to a all in scope that will work for all my shooting needs.
I found a bullet, case, primer of 1 that will remain the same for 2017/8 year. Consistany is key for those that choose to.

If the rifle and case show consistant groups down range, then a huge portion the accurate shot placement is taken care of.

Western Canada Don
 
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