.30-30: Good for black bears at 100 yards+? BC hunters, you ought to know?

TheCoachZed

TheCoachZed

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Hi BC black bear hunters:

I'm finally getting back to black bear hunting after skipping a few yrs because I was too busy.

Previously, I shot them with a 12 gauge over bait - worked well, and had its advantages (read a lot of novels while I was waiting for Mr Bear to show up), but I don't feel like running bait or building a stand this year.

Instead, I've been driving around CFB Gagetown, looking. Saw a few the other night, a couple of which I could have shot, had I been equipped with a "rifle with telescopic sights."

The only scoped deer rifle I have is a Winchester 94 with a side mount. Anyone I know shooting bears out here with a .30-30 does it over bait. Anyone have any experience in longer range, 100-yard+ black bear shooting with this most venerable cartridge? Everyone knows, in theory, it works at less range than that.

I planned on using Winchester Powermax PHP, although I considered Leverevolution or even cheap Core-Lokts. I hear the Powermax shells are good at leaving a blood trail, and if I am tracking a bear, I like the sound of that.

I figure western hunters would have much more experience with this sort of thing, as most bears in the east are shot over bait.

I COULD go buy a .243, .270, .308 or .30-06, but I am trying to not blow all my money on things I don't need, and if I don't need it, why buy it? ;)
 
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Your 30-30 will work just fine out to at least 150 yards on black bear, perhaps even a bit more.

I would stay with the 170 grain bullets, though...they have proven to be the best over many decades of use.

Black bears are not particularly difficult to kill, IMHO. [I have shot a very large number of them]

As with any game, shot placement is the most important factor.

Regards, Dave.
 
Eagleye said:
Your 30-30 will work just fine out to at least 150 yards on black bear, perhaps even a bit more.

I would stay with the 170 grain bullets, though...they have proven to be the best over many decades of use.

Black bears are not particularly difficult to kill, IMHO. [I have shot a very large number of them]



As with any game, shot placement is the most important factor.

Regards, Dave.
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I lost a bear with a .30-30 once, with what I thought was a very well-placed shot at no more than 30 yards. I expected to find it dead within 20 yards, but found nothing. I shot it at last light, and after looking a while, it was too dark to go poking around any further for what was an obviously wounded bear, so I went back in the morning and found no blood trail, no nothing, and no black bear. It's partly why I'm a bit hesitant to use it. I know, factually, that it will work, but that was my worst hunting experience.
 
In this business of deciding what rifle is appropriate for what purpose, I believe in getting the most versatility out of the firearm I choose for any particular purpose. The .30/30 has been dumping black bear with authority since smokeless powder made it's debut. The traditional lever action carbine, be it from Winchester, Marlin, or a copy of one or another, has two great attributes, when fitted with a full length magazine, they carry enough ammo, and you can carry them all day long without being unduly fatigued. With regard to the latter, perhaps no other sporting arm is as good as the slim profiled lever gun. Back in the early years of the 20th Century, the velocity of 2150-2200 fps was the gold standard, and the proper gun was chosen not for its velocity but for its caliber and bullet weight. The .30/30/170 was seen as ideal for most North American hunting, until the advent of the .30/06, when the flatter trajectory made possible with an increase of 500 fps and a pointed bullet, over time caught people's attention, particularly when magnified optics became universally available.

The advent of modern high velocity cartridges loaded with high BC bullets has certainly defined the type. That is not to say that the .30/30 is any less capable than it ever was, and the game is no tougher. But what has changed is the country. Thick bush in all parts of the country have been opened with power lines, and these provide the hunter with the ability to study the land before him as carefully as the hunter who practices his craft south of Medicine Hat. As has always been the case, lake shores can provide a long shot that is beyond the capability of the .30/30. Certainly 300 yard shots are not beyond the realm of possibility. Now I can shoot out to 300 with my .30/30 by loading 130 gr bullets to 2500, and using the lever gun as a two-shooter with one in the chamber and one in the tube, but most .30/30 users don't load, and most wouldn't bother doing this if they did.

How and where you hunt is entirely your choice, but even if you choose to hunt exclusively from a blind or stand, or still hunt in heavy timber, you must agree that the .30/30 lacks the versatility of high velocity cartridges like the .270, 7-08 or .280 and the .308 or the .30/06. This may or may not affect your choice, but if you have the opportunity to hunt in a different area, it might prove to be a significant factor in your success or failure, and to the enjoyment of the experience. On the flipside, if you have to spend 8 or 10 hours on a tough trail, through primeval forest, a 7mm magnum with a 26" barrel will suck compared to a M-94 carbine.
 
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I think you'll be fine with the 30/30. People have been using it for all types of game for 100+ years.
I applaud your choice to not hunt from a stand any more.
This is my opinion of course, but hiding in a tree over bait, waiting to shoot fish in a barrel just isn't hunting, IMHO.
 
kawicrash said:
I think you'll be fine with the 30/30. People have been using it for all types of game for 100+ years.
I applaud your choice to not hunt from a stand any more.
This is my opinion of course, but hiding in a tree over bait, waiting to shoot fish in a barrel just isn't hunting, IMHO.
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It ain't shooting fish in a barrel, and it's an enjoyable way to spend an afternoon, but I just wanted to change it up. No point in doing the same thing over and over again until you get bored of it.
 
kawicrash said:
I think you'll be fine with the 30/30. People have been using it for all types of game for 100+ years.
I applaud your choice to not hunt from a stand any more.
This is my opinion of course, but hiding in a tree over bait, waiting to shoot fish in a barrel just isn't hunting, IMHO.
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Never done it, have you?
 
The .30/30 cartridge with a standard 170 is good bear medicine to 150 yards... the only question is are you good to 150 yards with your rifle? If you practice and can place your shot, the event will go well.

The bear you lost, was not a heart/lung shot, or you would have recovered it... you might have hit it a little too far back... which is a common problem on bears.
 
hoytcanon said:
The .30/30 cartridge with a standard 170 is good bear medicine to 150 yards... the only question is are you good to 150 yards with your rifle? If you practice and can place your shot, the event will go well.

The bear you lost, was not a heart/lung shot, or you would have recovered it... you might have hit it a little too far back... which is a common problem on bears.
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In retrospect, I expect you are right.

I was using a Savage 170 pump rifle, and it jammed, or I would have had a second shot easily to make sure. That was the second time that rifle did it to me while shooting at game, and I never used it again. I was pretty heartsick, and kicked myself for not using my pump shotgun, because I think the slug would have done the job with the same shot placement. I would have had a second shot, as well.

I haven't hunted with a .30-30 since.
 
No, I haven't. I wouldn't even consider it. Just seems cowardly to me.
If you could figure out some small landmines or something you wouldn't even have to put your book down.
BOOM! Hunter casually looks over top of book, "Woo! just killed a ferocious bear, I feel so in touch with my primal side!"
hoytcanon said:
Never done it, have you?
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kawicrash said:
No, I haven't. I wouldn't even consider it. Just seems cowardly to me.
If you could figure out some small landmines or something you wouldn't even have to put your book down.
BOOM! Hunter casually looks over top of book, "Woo! just killed a ferocious bear, I feel so in touch with my primal side!"
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Lol not quite.

I picked up the book tip from professional hunter Don Heath. It's a trick he used while lion hunting. I figured if it was good enough for him, it was good enough for me. The whole point of a stand is to stay quiet and if reading a book helps me do that, I'll do it. Plus, sometimes it's the only way I can get enough peace and quiet to do so.
 
kawicrash said:
No, I haven't. I wouldn't even consider it. Just seems cowardly to me.
If you could figure out some small landmines or something you wouldn't even have to put your book down.
BOOM! Hunter casually looks over top of book, "Woo! just killed a ferocious bear, I feel so in touch with my primal side!"
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Simple as that, eh? I wonder why the success rate is 12-15% and the bulk of the bears killed are jeuvenile bears? You are expressing an opinion on a subject that you know nothing about... which makes you the perfect internet warrior.
 
TheCoachZed said:
In retrospect, I expect you are right.

I was using a Savage 170 pump rifle, and it jammed, or I would have had a second shot easily to make sure. That was the second time that rifle did it to me while shooting at game, and I never used it again. I was pretty heartsick, and kicked myself for not using my pump shotgun, because I think the slug would have done the job with the same shot placement. I would have had a second shot, as well.

I haven't hunted with a .30-30 since.
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It is sickening when an animal is lost... I know how you feel. In that case I would not blame the cartridge though... lots of things can go wrong and sometimes they do... back in the saddle.
 
I have read and heard a 100 stories of guys sitting in a tree stand or blind waiting for a bear to show up and when it does they miss or scare off the bear or the bear smells them and many other reasons plus bears only coming in a dark so how hunting bears over bait is shooting fish in a barrel is beyond me.
I personally have only hunted bear in the 300's and 400's of Alberta so baiting was out but all of them were taken with a single shot rifle at less then 50 yards.
 
Talking to an old native hunter (Cree) decades ago, he used nothing but a 30/30 Win 94 for everything. Bear, moose, deer, caribou, etc and with 150 grain bullets. When I asked him why 150's and not 170 grain bullets, he replied the 150's were less money. Mind you, this guy was a subsistence hunter and not a sport shooter. I have no doubt the bullet went exactly where he wanted it to go.
 
StoneHorse said:
Talking to an old native hunter (Cree) decades ago, he used nothing but a 30/30 Win 94 for everything. Bear, moose, deer, caribou, etc and with 150 grain bullets. When I asked him why 150's and not 170 grain bullets, he replied the 150's were less money. Mind you, this guy was a subsistence hunter and not a sport shooter. I have no doubt the bullet went exactly where he wanted it to go.
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Everyone knows that, in theory, the .30-30 works on bears up close (although I have experienced otherwise, likely due to shot placement).

To me, the question turns more difficult in long-range situations. Bears are just as easy to kill as deer, but if you have to track 'em, you get issues with things like blood trails, thanks to fat plugging up bullet holes. Although, that becomes a problem in the fall moreso than this time of year.

One of my friends who shot a black bear at point blank range with his .30-30 said there was fat oozing out of the holes all over the place after, so maybe I'd be following a fat trail? :)

Anyway, my main thoughts for moving towards a different caliber were two-fold: One, a Rem 760 or a bolt-action rifle would likely shoot a little better than my Winchester 94. Two, the calibers I mentioned (308, 30-06, 270 and 243) all move a lot faster than a .30-30, and therefore might be more likely to leave an exit wound to follow.

The only time I ever shot a deer with a .30-30 at approx 110 yards, I hit him at least twice through the kill zone (with that Savage 170) and I don't think he dropped a speck of blood. I know at least one of the bullets was recovered from the hide on the far side. I don't remember if they both were. Anyway, the terminal results were sufficient, but had the buck had more will to live, he might have been tough to find.
 
hoytcanon said:
It is sickening when an animal is lost... I know how you feel. In that case I would not blame the cartridge though... lots of things can go wrong and sometimes they do... back in the saddle.
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Indeed. I lost a huge cinnamon after what seemed like a perfect shot with my .270 @ about 60 yards. It took off like a rocket into the thickest crap I have ever seen. Worst day hunting I have ever had. Hours and hours of frustration. No blood, no bear, no nothing. I remember it like it was yesterday, but I won't hesitate to use that same rifle on a different bear when I have the chance. At some point you just have to move on. (And if anyone is wondering, it was a 130gr TTSX going 3060).
 
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