.30 m2 ammo

jibjedi

jibjedi

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I picked up this box of 30-06 ammo at a local gun show this weekend and was just wondering if it is the stuff that was originally made for use in the M1 Garand?
Would it be WWII vintage?
There is no date on the box, so I am not sure when it was manufactured.

IMG_1677.jpg
 
30-06 m2

While this could be used in the Garand, it is worth a lot more NOT firing it off, but for a collector's item.

The red stripe around this box is to denote this as ammunition for the Model 1917 Enfield rifle. During WW2, the USA shipped a lot of surplus Enfield Model 1917 rifles to England. As the British were also using the P-14 rifle in .303 British calibre, and the M-17 evolved from the P-14, it would be quite easy to mix up the ammunition. To the average untrained eye, both rifles look the same.

The British painted a 2 inch red band on the forestock of the M-17 rifles to denote the 30-06 Calibre. By matching the red stripe on the ammo boxes, there was less chance of trying to use the wrong ammunition.

If the box is already opened, the Headstamp on the cartridges will tell you the date.......WRA 41, WRA 42, etc. If the box IS NOT OPEN, I would not open it as the Collector's value will be cut in about half.
 
No it has not been opened. That is why I was wondering about the date of manufacture, I did not want to open it to check. I did manage to have a peek through one corner of the box and it is marked WRA 42. I bought it in hopes that it could go along as a collectable with my Garand ...oh well, still pretty neat for 20 bucks.

Thanks for the info!

Ps. the magnet didnt stick.
 
Part of the problem is that we say it backwards from the US military manner.

WE say "M2 Ball ammunition" and their Quartermaster, same as ours, says "cartridge, small arms, caliber .30, Ball, M2".

The "M" stands for "Model" but, if you really want to, you could think of it as "Mark" and it might confuse you less. THEY are certainly confused by our Marks and Stars, yet they are exactly the same as their "M"s and "A"s and "E"s and so forth and our "P"s correspond to their "T"s and we all become thoroughly confused. But both systems make sense when you get familiar with them.

But it remains that the US refers to things much more by their "M"s than we do, as we (and those Brits, of course) tend to like names for things.

Ammunition is only the very least of the confusion. You can have a pair of Tanks and they are both M3, except that one is 11 tons and the other is 22 tons and the half-track sitting beside them is also an M3 and the Carbine that the truckdriver carries is an M3 and the SMG in the tank is also M3. Small wonder that Honey, Grant/Lee, White, Carbine, Grease Gun and so forth were used so often. Pity the poor chappie who got all mixed up and ordered 100 M2s and ended up with a truckload of Brownings or a couple of acres of tanks when all he really wanted was enough shells to go to the range!

But the BOX says "BALL" and THEN it says "M2" so there you have it: Product and Model, in order.

But I'm back in the previous war and I am building the rifle that never was built (it was rebuilt from whatever they had lying about), the Rifle, Short, Magazine Lee-Enfield, Converted, Mark IV which you will also find listed as the Rifle, Short, Magazine Lee-Enfield, Mark IV, (Converted) and if this topic goes on much longer I am GOING to find that jug with the red label marked "SR-D" and quietly put me out of my misery!

But the ammo is safe, even if I might not be! And as Buffdog has pointed out, it is still too valuable to bang off.... but it is an awfully-nice item for a collection.
 
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The corrrect nomenclature is: Cartridge, Caliber .30, M2, Ball. The red strip has nothing to do with which weapon in which to use the ammunition. It indicate that an "alternate" bullet construction was used. The original specification for the Cartridge, Caliber .30, M2, Ball bullet calls for a copper jacket. The "alternate " construction bullet has a copper plated MILD steel jacket. So the magnet will stick but it ain't AP. This cartridge is manufactured IAW military specification MIL-C-1313F.
 
And THAT is really nice to know, Wizard!

Would have known better, but just haven't been able to afford that wonderful book on the .30-'06, the $100-odd one.

Thanks for setting me straight.

SR-D, anyone?
 
I could easily be wrong about this but there are some other white boxes with red stripes out there as well. The cartridges in the boxes are 30-06 as well. Markings on the boxes are a bit different.
The boxes are marked on each corner with "20 cartridges 20". Underneath is " S. A. BALL 30/06", then between two lines, two large "broad arrow C" markings. Beneath that is the manufacturers name. " Made in Canada by DEFENCE INDUSTRIES LIMITRD Montreal, Canada". On each end of the box is " 20 S.A.Ball 30/06 over a broad arrow C. The red band, goes all the way around the center of the box and is 1 inch wide.

I have been told by so called experts, they may be right, that these cartridges are specifically produced for synchronised machine guns, that shoot through propellors.

There is no date on the end stamp. They are stamped. "D.C.Co. .30spg.

I bought several boxes of these (50) about 10 years ago for $6/box. That was expensive at the time, for milsurp. I shot off several boxes, soon after I bought it and put about a dozen boxes away. Extremely accurate in the M1 Garand, P17 and 1903.

It shoots as good as the most accurate hand loads I have put together.

It was only a few years ago, that I found out what it was built for. It's possible that the Winchester stuff in the first thread was built for the same purpose.
 
Do Not open this box...please!!!!!
It is more valuable to keep un-opened then to cut it to pieces just to get at the ammo.

It is standard ball ammo (Red Striped box), dates could range from 1939 to 1955. There are other variation of the 30-06 ammo, as mentioned, Armor Piercing (Blue and Orange Stripe), Tracer (if I recall it has green and red stripes), Frangible (Green Stripe and some are plain), Gallery (Plain) and Guard rounds.

M.G. ammo has heavily crimped in primers, different then the ball ammo, boxes were plain and marked for M.G. use only.

D.C. Co. ammo for the M1917 had the red band on the box, in theory to correspond with the red band painted on the Canadian issued M1917's which came from the U.S.. However is was standard procedure in the U.S. to identify the packaged ammo with bands or stripes on the 20 round box...the crate was also marked with a colored band as well.
Cheers
 
Those with an interest in such stuff should find TM 9-1990, Small-arms Ammunition, useful. The one I have is a 1947 one with some colour plates as well.
 
Red striped boxes

this topic goes on much longer I am GOING to find that jug with the red label marked "SR-D" and quietly put me out of my misery!

Since there is no comment on Smellie's remark (above in bold), I guess I am going to have to say something.

SR-D is the nomenclature for Service, Rum--Demara. A very potent beverage that was mixed with water, and issued to British and other troops if they wished it once a day.

Yes, there was also ammunition issued in red banded boxes for machine guns for aircraft use. This was done during WWI, for the .303 ammunition, due to the fact that a lot of cartridges were slightly out of specification. While these could probably be stuffed into a rifle, trying to clear a jammed Vickers or Lewis in a S.E. 5 while you are 5000 feet in the air, and there are enemy aircraft around is not conductive to a long and healthy lifestyle.

There is a famous anecdote of Captain Eddy Rickenbacker sitting and measuring cartridges. When someone asked him why he was doing that, he told them. The person said he didn't think it mattered, and Rickenbacker pointed to a steel drum beside him that contained lots of cartridges that he had rejected, and invited the other person to take as many as he wanted and use them in his ammunition belts.
.
 
bearhunter said:
I could easily be wrong about this but there are some other white boxes with red stripes out there as well. The cartridges in the boxes are 30-06 as well. Markings on the boxes are a bit different.
The boxes are marked on each corner with "20 cartridges 20". Underneath is " S. A. BALL 30/06", then between two lines, two large "broad arrow C" markings. Beneath that is the manufacturers name. " Made in Canada by DEFENCE INDUSTRIES LIMITRD Montreal, Canada". On each end of the box is " 20 S.A.Ball 30/06 over a broad arrow C. The red band, goes all the way around the center of the box and is 1 inch wide.

I have been told by so called experts, they may be right, that these cartridges are specifically produced for synchronised machine guns, that shoot through propellors.

There is no date on the end stamp. They are stamped. "D.C.Co. .30spg.

I bought several boxes of these (50) about 10 years ago for $6/box. That was expensive at the time, for milsurp. I shot off several boxes, soon after I bought it and put about a dozen boxes away. Extremely accurate in the M1 Garand, P17 and 1903.

It shoots as good as the most accurate hand loads I have put together.

It was only a few years ago, that I found out what it was built for. It's possible that the Winchester stuff in the first thread was built for the same purpose.
Click to expand...

G, years ago, a lot of years ago, we shot a lot of WW2 30-06 ammo. It was all US manufacture and some were the type, synchronized for shooting through aircraft propellors, without one being a frogs hair late in going off, and hitting a propellor blade. These boxes were marked to distinguish them and I think that is what the "SA" stood for, sync ammo.
We pulled the bullets in some and replaced them with the same weight sporting bullet.
We also had armour piercing and some tracers.
 
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