300 Norma Magnum Unconventional Powder Choices

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formed16

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I recently just put together a 300 Norma Mag. It is a Cadex R7 "D" bolt face, IBI barrel 26" 1:10 twist, Mcmillan A5 stock, and Hawkins Precision bottom metal. I am looking to to use either 220gr SMKs, or 220gr Lapua Sencar Ls, or Berger 215gr hybrid targets. This rifle will be used mostly for ELR ringing steel targets past 1000 yards. If anyone here uses 300 Norma Magnum, please feel free to chime in!

I am looking around for powder choices for a my 300 Norma, right now I am seeing a lot of data for Retumbo, H1000, VV powders, and US869. With me being in Toronto, those powders might as well be unicorns. I have decided on either H50BMG, or Winchester Staball HD as those are the ones I currently have access to. I've done some digging and people have being saying that H50BMG powder is not the best as it is "TOO SLOW" for 300 NM. But US869 is considered a good powder to maximize "case fill", every single load data I consult (Hodgon, Sierra, Berger) all have data for US869. With H50BMG being a tad faster, why would it be inappropriate to use that powder?

The other choice is to go Staball HD, seems like people are having decent luck with those as it is just right behind retumbo the burn rate chart. However I was under the prenotion that extruded powders are traditionally much better suited for accuracy. With Staball HD being a double based powder, is that really going to effect accuracy?Hogdon's data for both Staball HD and H50BMG seem to be around 2800 - High 2700s on a 24" barrel, both are similar "enough" for my taste. Which is a better choice?

No I will not use US869, even though they are readily available through a vendor near me. I shoot during all 4 seasons from +25 degrees to -10 degrees, temperature stablity is needed.
 
Vihtavuori N570, N568 and N170 are currently some of the best, “available” powders for the 300 NM, IMHO. N570 powder got me a step change improvement in speed (pushing 3000 fps), accuracy and no pressure signs with 230 gr Hybrids and 230 gr OTM. The powder is available in many places including Prophet River and other retail stores.
 
formed16 said:
I recently just put together a 300 Norma Mag. It is a Cadex R7 "D" bolt face, IBI barrel 26" 1:10 twist, Mcmillan A5 stock, and Hawkins Precision bottom metal. I am looking to to use either 220gr SMKs, or 220gr Lapua Sencar Ls, or Berger 215gr hybrid targets. This rifle will be used mostly for ELR ringing steel targets past 1000 yards. If anyone here uses 300 Norma Magnum, please feel free to chime in!

I am looking around for powder choices for a my 300 Norma, right now I am seeing a lot of data for Retumbo, H1000, VV powders, and US869. With me being in Toronto, those powders might as well be unicorns. I have decided on either H50BMG, or Winchester Staball HD as those are the ones I currently have access to. I've done some digging and people have being saying that H50BMG powder is not the best as it is "TOO SLOW" for 300 NM. But US869 is considered a good powder to maximize "case fill", every single load data I consult (Hodgon, Sierra, Berger) all have data for US869. With H50BMG being a tad faster, why would it be inappropriate to use that powder?

The other choice is to go Staball HD, seems like people are having decent luck with those as it is just right behind retumbo the burn rate chart. However I was under the prenotion that extruded powders are traditionally much better suited for accuracy. With Staball HD being a double based powder, is that really going to effect accuracy?Hogdon's data for both Staball HD and H50BMG seem to be around 2800 - High 2700s on a 24" barrel, both are similar "enough" for my taste. Which is a better choice?

No I will not use US869, even though they are readily available through a vendor near me. I shoot during all 4 seasons from +25 degrees to -10 degrees, temperature stablity is needed.
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YOU ARE GOING TO BE USING A DIFFERENT POWDER CHARGE FOR 35C DIFFERENCE! Read the first hundred pages of a reloading manual. Temp stability covers cool mornings vs sunny afternoons effectively.
You could load 869 light and keep ammo in
a lunch box heater at 140F. That’s the universal cure for ball powders exaggerated temp sensitivity throughout the day which has won against temp stable powders.
 
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There is no load data for 7828 but I have a bunch of it so I used GRT and worked up a load for the Hornady 225gr ELD-M. They are running a bit over 2900 fps and the ES is very low. I'm pretty happy with the result.
 
708fan said:
YOU ARE GOING TO BE USING A DIFFERENT POWDER CHARGE FOR 35C DIFFERENCE! Read the first hundred pages of a reloading manual. Temp stability covers cool mornings vs sunny afternoons effectively.
You could load 869 light and keep ammo in
a lunch box heater at 140F. That’s the universal cure for ball powders exaggerated temp sensitivity throughout the day which has won against temp stable powders.
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Sorry, I’ve been away.

You’re right, I learned this the hard way. Went on a ELR shoot in Alaska with friends, dope and speeds were WAAAY off.

Anyways, I ended up going with H50BMG. I tried a few powders (Retumbo, H1000, H50BMG), and H50BMG gave me the BEST case fill.

If someone stumbles upon this form in the future, I wouldn’t hesitate to use H50BMG.
 
formed16 said:
I recently just put together a 300 Norma Mag. It is a Cadex R7 "D" bolt face, IBI barrel 26" 1:10 twist, Mcmillan A5 stock, and Hawkins Precision bottom metal. I am looking to to use either 220gr SMKs, or 220gr Lapua Sencar Ls, or Berger 215gr hybrid targets. This rifle will be used mostly for ELR ringing steel targets past 1000 yards. If anyone here uses 300 Norma Magnum, please feel free to chime in!

I am looking around for powder choices for a my 300 Norma, right now I am seeing a lot of data for Retumbo, H1000, VV powders, and US869. With me being in Toronto, those powders might as well be unicorns. I have decided on either H50BMG, or Winchester Staball HD as those are the ones I currently have access to. I've done some digging and people have being saying that H50BMG powder is not the best as it is "TOO SLOW" for 300 NM. But US869 is considered a good powder to maximize "case fill", every single load data I consult (Hodgon, Sierra, Berger) all have data for US869. With H50BMG being a tad faster, why would it be inappropriate to use that powder?

The other choice is to go Staball HD, seems like people are having decent luck with those as it is just right behind retumbo the burn rate chart. However I was under the prenotion that extruded powders are traditionally much better suited for accuracy. With Staball HD being a double based powder, is that really going to effect accuracy?Hogdon's data for both Staball HD and H50BMG seem to be around 2800 - High 2700s on a 24" barrel, both are similar "enough" for my taste. Which is a better choice?

No I will not use US869, even though they are readily available through a vendor near me. I shoot during all 4 seasons from +25 degrees to -10 degrees, temperature stablity is needed.
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I am close to you powders u listed are not hard to find
 
jcpal said:
I am close to you powders u listed are not hard to find
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Yeah now they’re popping out of nowhere. Hummasons now has H1000 and retumbo back in stock, I ended up picking up 1lbs if each to see what shoots better.

When compared to H50BMG, the case fill is a lot better. Decided to sick with H50BMG, I am using 85.8gr of H50bmg with 230gr begers @ 2902 fps.
 
I tried a 125gr Berger in the 300 Norma .... just for S's & G's. The first load ran around 3680 fps but accuracy wasn't very impressive. The second load showed 3720 on the chronograph but not a single bullet hit the target at 100 yds. The only thing I can think of to explain that is the thin jacketed match bullets simply came apart in flight.

I may try Nosler 125gr Ballistic Tips to see if they will survive 3700 fps as I think they are more designed for high velocities.
 
I Dont Care About You said:
I tried a 125gr Berger in the 300 Norma .... just for S's & G's. The first load ran around 3680 fps but accuracy wasn't very impressive. The second load showed 3720 on the chronograph but not a single bullet hit the target at 100 yds. The only thing I can think of to explain that is the thin jacketed match bullets simply came apart in flight.

I may try Nosler 125gr Ballistic Tips to see if they will survive 3700 fps as I think they are more designed for high velocities.
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100% the case, with that speed I would maybe even look at copper rounds as they are "tougher" than conventional lead/copper plated bullets. Bullets exploding or delaminating mid air was a HUGE document issue with the 22 WSSM, esp paired with a 30gr varmint grenade you can push it to 4500fps, bullet starts coming apart as soon as it leaves the barrel .


3700fps is insanely fast, I would be worried about the bullet being "over-stabilized". Honestly shooting a bullet to past 3500fps seems like fun way to shoot out your barrel.
 
formed16 said:
3700fps is insanely fast, I would be worried about the bullet being "over-stabilized". Honestly shooting a bullet to past 3500fps seems like fun way to shoot out your barrel.
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Realistically there is no such thing as a bullet being "overstabilized" and certainly no safety concern. Spinning a bullet overly fast likely causes poor accuracy, which is what I saw.

The speed of the projectile is not what causes erosion of the barrel. It is shoving huge amounts of burning powder down the bore, that causes erosion of the rifling. As I am already shoving 82.0gr of powder down the bore for the regular loads, I don't think that a few extra grains for the super lightweight 125's would make much difference. Also, I was only playing with the 125's to see what they would do. No intention to work up a load for those as I don't see a point to it.

I use the 125's in my 308 Win at 3000 fps as a plinking, varmint load and they are fantastic for those purposes.
 
I Dont Care About You said:
Realistically there is no such thing as a bullet being "overstabilized" and certainly no safety concern. Spinning a bullet overly fast likely causes poor accuracy, which is what I saw.

The speed of the projectile is not what causes erosion of the barrel. It is shoving huge amounts of burning powder down the bore, that causes erosion of the rifling. As I am already shoving 82.0gr of powder down the bore for the regular loads, I don't think that a few extra grains for the super lightweight 125's would make much difference. Also, I was only playing with the 125's to see what they would do. No intention to work up a load for those as I don't see a point to it.

I use the 125's in my 308 Win at 3000 fps as a plinking, varmint load and they are fantastic for those purposes.
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I have overstabilized a bullet before. I have built a 6 SST (Sherman Short Tactical), shooting 115gr Bergers at 3500fps with a 7.5" twist. I was having all shorts of accuracy issues. Changed to different powders, primers, and even bullets, it was never shooting right.

I am not taking about the speed causing the erosion of the barrel. My point came off as wrong, I was talking about actual round count on your 300 Norma. For me I had my gunsmith do a "fire forming" barrel in order to save 1/3rd of my barrel life. This is my 2nd 300 Norma, the first only lasted me about 900~ rounds before the groups opened up and speeds started tanking. This included the fire forming of the brass. I use my 300 NM sparingly and only for ELR matches.

125 on 308 yes, thats fine. But I thought we were on the topic of 300 NM.
 
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H50bmg is a very large extruded bulky powder, even though it may be a bit faster burning than US869. US869 is a ball powder, and you can fit enough powder in the case to make it work very well in the cartridge, relative to its burn speed.

It will probably get the highest velocity with the heavier bullets compared to most powders as well, while having a lower "flame temp" and running at quite a bit lower pressures than the faster powders. In turn not wearing out your barrel.

Yeah it's a bit temp sensative, but not unmanageable. I run it exclusively in my 300RUM, running bullets 220+ grain. I have well over a thousand rounds down the pipe, and it has very little throat erosion, and no fire cracking. And I run 101.0 grains with the 225-240 grain bullets. Same point of impact through 4 seasons, with about 150fps change. 2950-3100 with the 225's. Have shot elk at -38° and targets at +38°.

Staball HD would probably be a good choice, IMR7828 as others have stated is great as well. Reloder 23, 26, 33, and 50. Would also work.
 
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