.300 Savage V/S 308 W

[prosper]

There's almost no difference between hot 308 loads and standard '06 loads, in weights up to 165 or possibly 180gr bullets.

Look 'em up in a load manual - about 100fps difference usually.

The .308 is also a more efficient case, which means that you don't lose as much velocity when you lose barrel length. By the time you're down to 22" or so, they're even closer.

 

['Boo]

How close can the .308 be safely loaded to the same ballistics as the 30-06? ( I know, if I want a .308 to shoot like a 30-06 then I should buy one, but .308 is easier to say )

If you are shooting factory ammo there is very little real-world difference between the 308 and the 30-06 as factory '06 ammo is loaded fairly mild in deference to the umpteen thousand old rifles chambered for the cartridge. As the 308 is a "modern" round it is loaded to higher factory pressures which closes the gap between it and the '06.

A modern rifle chambered in 30-06 fed carefully worked up hand loads is a different story. In that scenario the 30-06 will beat the 308 by 150 - 250 fps in all bullet weights with the biggest difference being in the 180 gr and up bullet weights.

 

[Mumptia]

Well, that enough for me. Lets do away with the 30-06

 

[Mumptia]

Upon further thinking

150 -250 fps doesn't seem to be significant.

Based on the same bullet weight, the 06 will have more down range capapbility, but how much?

 

[prosper]

Well, the same applies to the 308 - take a look at the published loads for it - most top out at 50kpsi. SAAMI rates this cartridge at above 60kpsi (65k IIRC)

 

['Boo]

Upon further thinking

150 -250 fps doesn't seem to be significant.

Based on the same bullet weight, the 06 will have more down range capapbility, but how much?

About 25 yards in trajectory and about 75 yards in energy figures, which is also about the difference between the 30-06 and the 300 Win Mag.

In the picture I posted above about the .30 calibre cartridges I use the 5 on the right are all loaded with a 165 grain bullet. (The 30-30 on the far left has a 150 grain bullet and is not really in the same class as the rest) In my rifles here are the velocities I safely get: The 300 Savage averages about 2600 fps, the 308 about 2750, the 30-06 about 2900, the 300 wsm - a new one for me - is impressive at just better than 3150 and my old 300 WM gets just around the 3200 fps mark.

For interest here is a comparison the 300 Savage and the 300 WM using a 165 grain bullet with a BC of .430

The 300 Savage at a MV of 2600 fps has 1500 ft/lbs of energy remaining at 300 yards. The 300 WM at 3200 fps MV is 25% faster than the Savage and has 2350 fp of energy at 300 yards or near 60% increase over the Savage.

A more useful figure is the point blank range. On an eight inch diameter target the 300 Savage has a BPR of 290 yards - not too shabby by any means. The 300 WM beats that by less than 20% with a 350 yard PBR.

So on deer or other soft-skinned animals does the 300 WM have any practical advantage over the 300 Savage?

 

[cosmic]

Well - Lets see.. . Kinetic energy varies with velocity squared, so an extra 100 fps gives 8% more energy (at 2700 fps), 150 fps gives 11% more energy....
Not insignificant!

 

['Boo]

Well - Lets see.. . Kinetic energy varies with velocity squared, so an extra 100 fps gives 8% more energy (at 2700 fps), 150 fps gives 11% more energy....
Not insignificant!

But how much energy is required to kill a deer? That is the $64,000.00 question.


Energy does not kill animals, loss of blood and a drop in blood pressure or a disruption of the central nervous system does. Poke a hole through a deer and hit some major blood vessels on the way through and the deer will be dead, regardless if it is 3000 ft/lbs of energy from a short-range hit from a magnum rifle or less than 100 ft/lbs of energy from an arrow.

 

[todbartell]

on deer, inside 300 yards, you'd be hard pressed to find any real performance gains over a 300 Savage, IMO


​

 

[1899]

Well - Lets see.. . Kinetic energy varies with velocity squared, so an extra 100 fps gives 8% more energy (at 2700 fps), 150 fps gives 11% more energy....
Not insignificant!

Kinetic energy is what the ammo manufacturers used to brainwash people into thinking the new smokeless cartridges were far superior to the old beasts flinging large chunks of lead. You see, when looking at kinetic energy, velocity is very important (because it is squared in the formula), whereas momentum, which is, imo, a better number to look at (if you are a number kind of guy/gal) velocity is not squared. Do some number crunching and comparisons, you'll be suprised

 

[cosmic]

Agreed - I think there is way too much hype about velocity, magnums, etc. I personally dont shoot anything above 2600 fps, and use Hornady Interlocks - the deer expire quite handily.
I did the math to point out that even 100 fps is significant.... When you consider the difference between 2500 fps and 3200 fps - 65% more kinetic energy per unit of mass, its no wonder bullet manufacturers have to put on a dog and pony show!