303 Br. After PPU brass, what's next choice?

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RonR

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One of the two 303 Br Enfields I have here has excessive headspace. No surprises to anyone here of course.

The older Winchester cases are holding but even after the o-ring method and what I would consider moderate loads. The newer red/black bag issue just seems to be thinner and showing wear earlier than others I have used in the past. ... as foreshadowed by a few CGN's here that the newer offerings from Winchester is not the same as days earlier.

The other Enfield already uses PPU brass, and in an effort to keep head stamps separate for each rifle, looking for some experienced posters to share their next favorites for 303 brass so that I can keep an eye out for availability in the future.

I am not aware of any commercially available mil spec headstamps. Higginsons used to have a European vendor supply but I missed that boat.

I have retired this rifle from "active" hunting duty more than a few years ago and want to continue to use it for hitting the gong if it can be feasible.

Regards
Ronr
 
If your rifle is a No. 4 why not look around for an up size bolt head? If it's a No 1 Mk 3 an up size bolt head will need to be fitted but if it's a nice rifle it may be worth the labor. Just saying.
 
You need to differentiate between excessive rim headspace and a generous chamber. If you are neck sizing, or partially resizing, the rim headspace becomes irrelevant as you are headspacing on the shoulder. However, #4's can have a generous chamber which will cause the case to stretch substantially on the first firing. The o ring trick prevents the case from stretching at the base, leaving the case to stretch at the shoulder, which should be less problematic. However, for some brass this stretch at the shoulder is a killer. I found this out with some blue bag winchester brass - axial splits in the neck and shoulder area after 2 firings. I would speculate that the brass is thin and brittle - a bad combination. Who knows about the black bag Winchester? I would put Remington and Federal in the thin category, at least.
IVI brass comes up from time to time, which is pretty decent (thick and ductile). I'd stick with the PPU (also thick and ductile) - just get separate MTM ammo cases for the two rifles, and away you go. Oh - and you might consider annealing the necks and shoulders after one or two firings.
 
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Federal brass is good. I also anneal the neck and short size about 2/3 down so as not to touch the rest of the case.
The unsized part of the neck helps with alignment too.
I've heard sizing with a 7.62x54R works.
 
Rod said:
If your rifle is a No. 4 why not look around for an up size bolt head? If it's a No 1 Mk 3 an up size bolt head will need to be fitted but if it's a nice rifle it may be worth the labor. Just saying.
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Snider shooter said:
Why not just get a longer bolt head. Easy to change.
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It's a 4 alright. The last time I checked for a no. 3 bolt head, it was like hen's teeth but I look for that again and thanks for the reminder! I gave up previously but time to try again.

Regards
Ronr
 
cosmic said:
You need to differentiate between excessive rim headspace and a generous chamber. If you are neck sizing, or partially resizing, the rim headspace becomes irrelevant as you are headspacing on the shoulder. However, #4's can have a generous chamber which will cause the case to stretch substantially on the first firing. The o ring trick prevents the case from stretching at the base, leaving the case to stretch at the shoulder, which should be less problematic. However, for some brass this stretch at the shoulder is a killer. I found this out with some blue bag winchester brass - axial splits in the neck and shoulder area after 2 firings. I would speculate that the brass is thin and brittle - a bad combination. Who knows about the black bag Winchester? I would put Remington and Federal in the thin category, at least.
IVI brass comes up from time to time, which is pretty decent (thick and ductile). I'd stick with the PPU (also thick and ductile) - just get separate MTM ammo cases for the two rifles, and away you go. Oh - and you might consider annealing the necks and shoulders after one or two firings.
Click to expand...

Neck sizing with the Lee collet. Somewhat generous chamber for sure, however headspace I believe is more of an issue. Primers sit proud after 2nd firing. (1st firing was o-ring treatment to space the case.) I annealed a batch of 1x fired and 2x fired and we'll see if the cases lengthens out appropriately enough to not have proud primers and also to avoid the thin and brittle situations as you describe. I read here that proud primers can be a result of not enough pressure to force the case back ergo the primer pushing out, but I don't think that's the situation with this rifle.

Noted on the IVI brass and I'll watch out for that.

Thanks for the tips and if annealing allows enough stretch to fit better and reduces what I believe to be the cause of proud primers, I post the results.

Thanks for the insight Cosmic. It's appreciated.

Regards
Ronr
 
Bubba Yugga said:
Federal brass is good. I also anneal the neck and short size about 2/3 down so as not to touch the rest of the case.
The unsized part of the neck helps with alignment too.
I've heard sizing with a 7.62x54R works.
Click to expand...

Interesting. 2/3'rds of the neck eh? I can see how that would help with alignment in this situation. Since you have mentioned this, I think an alternative to the collet die may be warranted if I can't find a no. 3 bolt head to bring this brass to a case length that is more conventional.

7.62x54R? I'll keep that in mind. I have for the most part only shoulder bumped with a body die and collet die'd the neck but in this situation I may have look at a different way/dies to customize for this rifle.

Cool!

Thanks!


zuke said:
IVI 303 brass.
Place a WTB ad
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Yup :cheers: !

Ronr
 
Here's a second "plug" for IVI brass. It is pretty decent quality
and has been annealed well. I have a bit, and some has now been fired 8 times with
no indications of failure so far. Dave.
 
Sometimes, quantities of the old Dominion Cartridge Company brass shows up in bags at gun shows.

This is the best 303 Brit brass I've had. Luckily I was able to pick up a couple of five gallon buckets of range pick ups from a vendor on the EE about ten years back.

All once fired range pick ups.

This stuff has rim thicknesses that are right on spec. The next best is as eagleye stated IVI. Even the old CIL brass is very good.
 
Eagleye said:
Here's a second "plug" for IVI brass. It is pretty decent quality
and has been annealed well. I have a bit, and some has now been fired 8 times with
no indications of failure so far. Dave.
Click to expand...

Thats a few for IVI... I have to keep a look out for some. :)

bearhunter said:
Sometimes, quantities of the old Dominion Cartridge Company brass shows up in bags at gun shows.

This is the best 303 Brit brass I've had. Luckily I was able to pick up a couple of five gallon buckets of range pick ups from a vendor on the EE about ten years back.

All once fired range pick ups.

This stuff has rim thicknesses that are right on spec. The next best is as eagleye stated IVI. Even the old CIL brass is very good.
Click to expand...

Interesting about the Dominion and CIL brass. I only had a handful of each of those head stamps pass through my hands going back years, inheriting from other peoples discards. They must have been shot in Enfield 's with more generous chambers this one. A little #### eyed with case head separation lines starting to form. From that, I didn't give much thought as something to retain as being a tough offering.

I'll keep an eye out for them more now and not be quick to pass judgement. If these head stamps are the quiet pieces of knowledge Enfield lovers know about that I never felt the reason to take note of, I feel my chances of stumbling into a stash undiscovered by others very slim.

But the sun shines on a dogs butt every once and a while (or so I think was the phasing) and over time that may happen here. The needs for brass aren't urgent for this rifle however throwing out the time spent on initial brass prep at the rate of predicted brass failure is something I'd like to avoid going forward.

Thank you gentlemen for the leads on solid head stamps. Some things made previously are still superior to todays offerings!

Ron
 
I've had Sellier and Bellot brass split some necks on only the 2nd firing....I wouldn't use it for a 3rd. That being said factory s&b shoots very well.

PPU has been real good so far, quite impressed with it.


I have some ivi, but I have to figure out how to open the primer pocket crimp to reload it (just recently started loading for 303)
 
bearhunter said:
Sometimes, quantities of the old Dominion Cartridge Company brass shows up in bags at gun shows.

This is the best 303 Brit brass I've had. Luckily I was able to pick up a couple of five gallon buckets of range pick ups from a vendor on the EE about ten years back.

All once fired range pick ups.

This stuff has rim thicknesses that are right on spec. The next best is as eagleye stated IVI. Even the old CIL brass is very good.
Click to expand...

Look at auctions, I got ~400 of them for $100 2 months ago. it was sold as 450, but there were a bunch of random calibers mixed in. funny thing was that 50% were never shot and still had their primers intact.
 
Noted on the S & B brass. I've heard that as well. There are some good posts here about removing the crimp.

Good tip on the auctions.

Regards
Ronr
 
MartyT said:
���� I'll give that a shot, I tried a counter-sink bit and I buggered one and gave up, should be un-fk-up-able but I always manage to find a way, thank you Snider
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I use a counter sink on my bench top drill press. Set on second from the top speed (1500?) RPM. Takes a split second to take the crimp out
 
RonR said:
Noted on the S & B brass. I've heard that as well. There are some good posts here about removing the crimp.

Good tip on the auctions.

Regards
Ronr
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Not sure about you guys, but I've never had luck with S&B. The primer pockets are horrible, I even tried their own brand primer and every other case would get stuck. I gave upon it and started using PPU
 
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