303 Brit MkVII

Rimfire

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Hey all

Does anyone know what the modern equivalent of the .303 MkVII ammunition would be?

I don't think they sell cordite for reloading purposes, so I'm wondering what modern bullet and powder brand/weight would approximate that cartridge.

Thanks!
 
Yeh, I'm going to try Varget first. I've got a pile of it for 308 and 223 so I might as well try to find a load that works using it.
 
I have tried Varget, 748, 4350, 4895 and VV135 with the 174 grain Sierras. Best velocity was with 748; best accuracy with 4895. This in a P14 based rifle. Regards, Bill.
 
H414 and 4350 is much easier on brass(minimal case expasion) when loaded to mkv11 velocities than the faster burning powders are. I don't neck size as I have 7 different .303's, but by using these powders and partial sizing, my loads work in all 7 and Ihave cases that have been fired 12 times with no problems.

All of the mk v11 factory ammo I have cronographed measured a little over 2400 fps in my rifles and 2300 in #5's. The current Ranger issued ammo is 2530 in my rifles.
 
303

None of the new powders worked for me, traditionals IMR 4320 and 4895 work great, also had a stash of mil surp bullets that are starting to dwindle they weighed about 176grains. The old Lyman data was peeerty darn good.
 
Personally, I've found IMR 4320 to be the best.

The actual Mark VII cartridge, however, was supposedly filled with the precursor of IMR 3031, about 37.5 grains with a 174-grain bullet. Therefore, IMR 3031 remains a classic choice to duplicate that load.
 
174 hornady fmj, 174 sierra match or 180 spitzer hunting bullets. IMR 3031, 4895 or 4064 powder.

44Bore

MkVII ball is a 174g flat-based spitzer @2440+-40fps. MkVIII ball is a 175g boat-tail spitzer @2550+-40fps and pressure is 20-21 tons (19.5 for Mark VII).

The only problem with the above formula is that we have now assembled a MkVIIIz rather than MkVIIz.

Service rifles were to utilize MkVII ball, and sights & scopes are graduated/cammed for it.

Does anyone know of a FLAT BASE 174g spitzer??

I was thinking of reforming hornady 174g RN, but thats way too technically advanced for me...
 
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I am sure IMR 4320 is the perfect powder for the .303 with original velocity and case life in mind. I have also found Olin 760 to be great. They both have one short-coming however, they lose quite a bit of velocity in extremely cold weather. That is why I now use Hodgdons powder.

Actually I am pulling down 3500 Swedish 8-63 cartridges for the powder, so I will be trying it as well . It is supposed to be around 4064 burning rate.
 
Hey all

Does anyone know what the modern equivalent of the .303 MkVII ammunition would be?

I don't think they sell cordite for reloading purposes, so I'm wondering what modern bullet and powder brand/weight would approximate that cartridge.

Thanks!

I don't think that we should be using cordite surplus in new (or expensive) barrels.

Some interesting info stolen from another board and a member known as MkVII
taken from Army Ordnance Regulations, 1949

APPENDIX 15

(referred to in para.29)

USE OF .303-IN CORDITE AND N.C. AMMUNITION

1. The action of Cordite propellant in the barrel of a .303-in. weapon is quite different from that of N.C. propellant.
Cordite gives a rapid build-up of pressure with great heat, leading to pitting and erosion of the chamber end of the barrel.
N.C., however, gives a more gradual build-up of pressure with less heat, and this in turn gives uniformity of barrel wear from chamber to muzzle, the amount of pitting and erosion being greatly reduced.

2. With Cordite propellant, set-up of the bullet is most pronounced and even when the chamber end of the barrel is well worn, the muzzle end still has sufficient rifling left to impart the necessary spin. As the wear advances up the barrel, so the accuracy of the weapon is progressively reduced.
With an N.C. propellant, set-up of the bullet is slow and by no means so pronounced, due to the more gradual building up of pressure. The barrel retains its original accuracy until wear reaches a critical stage, when a sudden falling off in accuracy occurs.

3. It can be seen by comparison with the effects of barrel wear that to use N.C. ammunition in a barrel which has fired Cordite will give serious inaccuracy in flight, whereas the use of Cordite ammunition in a barrel which has fired N.C. gives good accuracy, but serious changed the wear pattern of the barrel.
In the first case, i.e. a weapon which has fired Cordite ammunition the barrel will be eroded and fissured in the first few inches up from the chamber, the part in which obturation should occur. The poor set-up of the bullet, in the N.C. cartridge is not sufficient to give good gas sealing in such a barrel and the bullet does not, therefore, receive the maximum impulse. The resultant loss in velocity and instability due to lack of spin lead to a high degree of inaccuracy.
In the second case, Cordite ammunition fired from a barrel which shows uniformity of wear from firing N.C. ammunition, has an adequate reserve of set-up that ensures full gas sealing, with satisfactory velocity and spin. Unless the barrel wear is in a advanced stage due to firing a large number of N.C. rounds, there will be no immediate appreciable loss in accuracy. Furthermore, the decline in accuracy for Cordite ammunition will follow the normal gradual fall-off experience in weapons firing Cordite alone, as the wear at C of R progresses.

4. Trials have proved that even if only a few rounds of Cordite ammunition are fired from an "N.C." barrel, the ensuing accuracy life when N.C. is subsequently fired is reduced considerably. The occasional and restricted use of N.C. in a "Cordite" barrel will however, have little effect on its ensuing accuracy life for Cordite, although naturally the fire of N.C. will not be very accurate.

5. The effect of wear of barrels can be determined by firing shots through a paper screen at 100 yards. If, on examination of the screen, all shot holes are not perfectly round, then the barrel is no longer fit for use.
The danger lies in the fact that bullets fired erratically from badly worn barrels may overcome their instability in flight and take up a steady flight in the direction in which they happen to be pointing, with short-ranging and disastrous results if used for overhead fire. Except under these conditions of long-range firing there is no risk involved, though in normal range firing inaccurate fire will result.

6. The following instructions regarding the use of .303-in ammunition have been issued to users and are governed by stocks and types of ammunition and weapons in current use:-

(a) .303 in. Vickers M.G.s in M.G. Bns.

(i)Mk.8z only will be used for overhead firing.
(ii) Mixed belts, i.e. Ball, Tracer, A.P., etc., will NOT be used.
(iii) Any barrel which has fired Cordite ammunition will NOT be used for N.C.; barrels will be stamped “7” on the trunnion block and returned to R.A.O.C. through normal channels.
(iv) Barrel life for N.C. will be assessed by unit armourers using the appropriate gauges.

(b) .303 in. Vickers M.G.s in A.F.V.s.

Here the overhead fire problem is not considered; the range is usually less than is the case with ground M.G.s. tracer ammunition is required as an aid to fire control, and prolonged fire programmes are not envisaged. Special mixed belts of Mk.8z and Tracer are provided in boxes clearly marked “For use in A.F.V.s only”. The reduced life of the barrels is accepted.

(c) Light M.G.s.

Cordite ammunition normally will be used. N.C. ammunition, however, gives a relatively small flash at night and if the Bren is being used for a special purpose, e.g., on a patrol, its use is permitted.

(d) Rifles.

N.C. ammunition will not be used in rifles except in such circumstances as quoted in para. “(c)”
above, if necessity should arise.

7. Belt packed S.A.A. for M.G.s is packed in boxes which are clearly marked with labels or stencilling indicating its proper use. It will never be de-belted and used for practice purposes in L.M.G.s or rifles.

8. It must be noted that the above restrictions apply only to ammunition fired from British weapons. All American ammunition is N.C. loaded and their weapons are designed to fire it satisfactorily
 
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