.303 Savage load data

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gerardjohnson

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I am having trouble locating load data for my .303 Savage. I have been loading 170 gr cast bullets sized .309 and 185 gr sized .311. Both work quite well with H4227, poorly with IMR4227. I have some 217 gr sized .312 for a .303 British that won't work in my P-14 so I would like to size them .311 and try them in my .303 Savage, or my .30-30 model 94. I can't find any data for the heavier bullets. Can anyone help?
 
For .303 Savage, cast loads I have some info I can scan and send to you if you want. Basically two cast bullets, 169gr & 187g. PM me your e-mail address. It takes a 0.308 diameter so .30-30 cast loads as / madtrapper143 would be probably be pretty close.
 
.303 savage

My Lyman #42 handbook, from 1960, gives load data for a 190 grain jacketed bullet useing IMR's 4895, 3031 and 4064.....for cast data it says "NOTE: use any cast bullet and charges listed for 30-30 Winchester "...

If the 190 gr. jacketed is of any use let me know...
 
It's the 217 gr cast bullet that I would like data for. There are no loads in that weight range for a cast bullet in 30-30 or .303 Sav. in any of my manuals or any web sites I've looked at. I'm no expert, so I like to stay with published data whenever I can.
 
gerardjohnson said:
It's the 217 gr cast bullet that I would like data for. There are no loads in that weight range for a cast bullet in 30-30 or .303 Sav. in any of my manuals or any web sites I've looked at. I'm no expert, so I like to stay with published data whenever I can.
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Well, I just did a check in an old 'goodie'. I have a tattered copy of the 1st Edition Lyman Handbook of cast Bullets and a note for the .303 Savage states, Note: Use same cast bullets and charges listed for .30-30 Winchester. However, the heaviest .30-30 cast bullet load I can find in any of my manuals is for a 173gr.
 
You never found any load data for a 217 gr. cast for a .303 Savage because it doesn't exist on/in any website, reloading manual ! ... therefore you can't stay with "published data " if you wish to pursue this.

I've fired Lee 200 grain cast out of my 30/30 with success but the loads were worked up to by useing MAX 190 gr jacketed .303 savage loads and starting 5 grains under max and working up.

There are all sorts of levels of implied "risk" in reloading cartridges....and I agree some of us should remain in their comfort zone of published data..
 
Johnn Peterson said:
Well, I just did a check in an old 'goodie'. I have a tattered copy of the 1st Edition Lyman Handbook of cast Bullets and a note for the .303 Savage states, Note: Use same cast bullets and charges listed for .30-30 Winchester. However, the heaviest .30-30 cast bullet load I can find in any of my manuals is for a 173gr.
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Slight update, the Beartooth Bullets site has a listing for a 205gr cast bullet in the .30-30.
 
gerardjohnson said:
The heaviest bullet I could find at beartooth bullets was 175 gr in 30-30, 180 in .303 Sav. I was looking in load swap, is that the right place?
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Pretty much so yes. Here's the 'steps' I took and what I found;
- Enter Loadswap
- Agree to use guidelines
- View rifle loads
- Page 6, .30-30 cast loads, 2 of
- 205gr load info
You probably saw, on page 7 there are 2 loads listed for the .303 Savage, 170gr & 180gr.
I've done a little more searching but the 205gr load is the heaviest cast load I've found listed for either the .30-30 or .303 Savage. Unless you want to 'experiment', it may be time to look for a more appropiate cast bullet weight that fits in with established .303 Savage reload data.
 
John, I found the 205 gr data but I don't have any H414 and don't want to buy any just to try that bullet. I tried some loads with IMR4227 that weren't impressive. I made these for my .303 British but they all keyholed, so I thought I would try them in the Savage. I guess the .303 Savage & 30-30 don't shoot heavy bullets well or there would be data available. I will just melt them down again and mold something else. Thanks everyone for the advice.
 
The .303 Savage was orig. loaded with a 190gr. bullet, that is why you may not see heavier loads in manuals......quite a few times I have seen recommendations to slug the bore as barrels have been found to be from .308 to .314"!
 
gerardjohnson said:
John, I found the 205 gr data but I don't have any H414 and don't want to buy any just to try that bullet. I tried some loads with IMR4227 that weren't impressive. I made these for my .303 British but they all keyholed, so I thought I would try them in the Savage. I guess the .303 Savage & 30-30 don't shoot heavy bullets well or there would be data available. I will just melt them down again and mold something else. Thanks everyone for the advice.
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As with any cast bullet you intend to use in any firearm, square one is to slug & determine the bore daimeter. With a calibre of this size, I've had good success sizing the bullets 0.001" greater than the bore diameter. With some of the 'stuff' 44cal and larger, I'll go as much as 0.002" over.
For the .303 Savage, some sources of info indicate the use of 0.308" diameter bullets and the next 'suggests' 0.311". While the Lyman 1st Edition Cast Bullet Handbook states " use same bullets & charges as listed for the .30-30 Winchester", they also suggest a cast bullet diameter of 0.311". In Pet Loads, Ken Waters also states "0.311" cast bullets are vastly superior to 0.308". Again, to start with, I would suggest determine your bore diameter. Oh, in the back of Lyman 1st edition cast book there is a cartridge chart and they show three suggested cast bullets;
# 311291........170gr
# 311466........150gr
# 311413........165gr
In Pet Loads, Ken Waters makes the following statement;
Among the cast bullet loads which performed the best were two:
(A) Lyman # 311291 with 17grs of IMR-4227 with mild ignition provided by Winchester # 111 Large Pistol primres -- a combination that would shoot five shots into 1/16 over 1" with four shots in 3/4"
(B) Lyman # 311375 & 19grs of IMR-4198, fired by Remington #9 1/2 primers, averaging 2" to 3" for five shots, and approximately 1 5/8" for four. Anyway, going to a more conventional bullet weight for your .303 Savage might be the route to take.
Before you go to melting down the 217gr bullets you have, I'd suggest making contact with hs4570 for input. He's done some similar required experimenting with unlisted bullets for some different calibres. Hope this helps you out a bit.:)
 
Thanks for your input.
Bore diameter isn't a problem since I get excellent accuracy with 185 gr .311 diam. bullets. The bullet is from a Lee mold intended for the .303 British, as was the 217 gr. that I have been experimenting with. I don't know what mold was used for the 217 gr but I believe it was a Lyman. It belongs to a friend. I weighed the bullets and separated them in weight groups. The weight range was from 214 to 220 grains. Ken Watters comments were responsible for my using the 185 gr .311 bullet. Why the large pistol primers?
 
gerardjohnson said:
Thanks for your input.
Bore diameter isn't a problem since I get excellent accuracy with 185 gr .311 diam. bullets. The bullet is from a Lee mold intended for the .303 British, as was the 217 gr. that I have been experimenting with. I don't know what mold was used for the 217 gr but I believe it was a Lyman. It belongs to a friend. I weighed the bullets and separated them in weight groups. The weight range was from 214 to 220 grains. Ken Watters comments were responsible for my using the 185 gr .311 bullet. Why the large pistol primers?
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Large pistol primers? I kinda' wondered about that myself when I sent you the info. I don't have an answer other than what I quoted was in Pet Loads.
The problem you had with the 217gr bullets 'keyholing' was similar to what I experienced with a 525gr RNPB in my .458wm model 70. To describe or define accuracy, there a number of 'terms' that come to mid. The best well known is Minute Of Angle. Next, according to 303carbine is Minute Of A Hockeypuck. The last describes the level of accuracy I got with my tests of the 525gr RNPB in the .458wm, Minute Of A Toiletseat. I have yet to figureout what my problem is there but accuracy was almost nonexistent, M.O T. Some of them were actually going through sideways. Why I don't know, yet, but other cast bullet loads worked fine as did jacketed loads. I have a target, shot at 100yds, three shot group of 0.871" using 500gr Hornady SP handloads.
 
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The keyhole problem was with my .303 British that I originally made the .311 & .312 bullets for. I fired 15 rounds of .215 gr .312 diam. cast bullets at a 10" square target at 50 yds. and hit the paper with 6 or 7. Most went through the paper sideways, none went straight through. From the holes in the backing board, I know my group was over 2.5' (minute of ?). This is an old beat-up sporterized P-14 that I bought for $25 at a gun show a few years ago that has a copper strap wrapped around the forestock & barrel and had a side mount for a small .22 scope brazed to the side of the receiver. Holes were drilled through the stock for home-made heavy wire sling swivels. This rifle shoots better with Hornady .312 bullets than any .303 British that I have ever owned, and I'v had at least a dozen.
 
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