308 and moose at 600m to 700m?

seamusm

seamusm

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Thank for taking a look at my post, I'll keep my question short.

Does 308 have the power to take a moose at 600-700 metres? Any experience here with moose at that distance?

I ask because I will have the opportunity to hunt regularly (seasonally) on land where moose pop out of dense bush but I will be 600 metres away. Of course I'll try to get closer but I may not be able to.

Yes I've hunted other, smaller game at those distances before. Deer and coyote with 270 win and 308.

I'm in the midst deciding on a new rifle purchase so I'm open to calibre and rifle suggestions. I'm leaning towards a sniper rig in 308 because off my army experience, familiarity and access to "cheaper", maybe free ammo.

Thanks in advance for your experience.
 
seamusm said:
Thank for taking a look at my post, I'll keep my question short.

Does 308 have the power to take a moose at 600-700 metres? Any experience here with moose at that distance?

I ask because I will have the opportunity to hunt regularly (seasonally) on land where moose pop out of dense bush but I will be 600 metres away. Of course I'll try to get closer but I may not be able to.

Yes I've hunted other, smaller game at those distances before. Deer and coyote with 270 win and 308.

I'm in the midst deciding on a new rifle purchase so I'm open to calibre and rifle suggestions. I'm leaning towards a sniper rig in 308 because off my army experience, familiarity and access to "cheaper", maybe free ammo.

Thanks in advance for your experience.
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The goal of every hunter is to take the animal as accurately,quickly and humanely as possible,right? At that range, 308Win is a tad light for taking down a 500KG Moose because retained energy down range drops off exponentially. Sure,you could hit the Moose,but,a kill shot wouldn't be likely. Ethically,we should be using the gear to adequately get the job done. A much heavier rifle with a heavy controlled expansion bullet would be necessary IMHO.
 
I don’t believe it has the ft lbs of energy to be attempting that kind of a shot. Look at some ballistic tables and you will draw you own conclusions. I have read that roughly 1400 ft lbs is needed on deer size game, and being a moose is like 5x the size….
 
Looking at tables in Nosler 7 manual, I am guessing that a 300 Win Mag could just deliver a 200 grain Accubond with sufficient velocity to expand at 700 meters (?), but does not appear that a Partition would make it at sufficient speed. Certainly, not the Protected Point version used in 300 Win Mag. No clue about 800 meters, since the Nosler tables only go to 600 yards. Requires that you first be able to put that bullet into the lungs - say 16" to 18" diameter target? Then, I suspect as much as a 1/4 mile of tracking to where the thing would eventually die. Table shows about 27" drop between 500 and 600. Will be more than that between 600 and 700. And more than that again between 700 and 800. I suspect a 25 or 30 yard error in range estimation would cause a miss of the kill zone. Can you make that shot?? Do not know windage numbers, but perhaps 1MOA or more wind drift, per mile per hour of full value wind at 800 meters? (8 MOA - 64" at 800 yards, in a ONE mph wind?) So an error of only one mile per hour wind speed (5 mph instead of 6, or vice versa), would also result in a significant miss of the kill zone. I do not compete, but I suspect that single, cold barrel shot would be a hellacious challenge to make for World Class "F"-class shooters with all the toys.

Not a "target shooting" thing - need to be sending a bullet with sufficient steam, to actually expand, to kill the beast, not simply perforate a paper target in the appropriate place. I suspect for most of us, that a moose at 700 or 800 meters should maybe be considered a "sighting", not a "target".
 
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Couple of mooses taken at around 400 yards with my Steyr Scout 308, traditional scope mounted. Those shots hitted with authority, i have no experience on a moose further than that. JP.
 
To answer your question without going into a lot of other issues, I would suggest a 300 WM or 2nd choice a 7 RM. The main issue around long range hunting usually isn't the choice of high power cartridge but one's ability to accurately estimate the range to target, I have seen many so called expert range estimators be off by as much as 50% and if shooting at a moose that is 500 away this can end badly ( for the moose)
 
With a 308 at that distance, I'd be prepared to walk a long ways if I were you. It might die from the shot, but chances are it won't be a bang flop shot.

David
 
bunny said:
To answer your question without going into a lot of other issues, I would suggest a 300 WM or 2nd choice a 7 RM. The main issue around long range hunting usually isn't the choice of high power cartridge but one's ability to accurately estimate the range to target, I have seen many so called expert range estimators be off by as much as 50% and if shooting at a moose that is 500 away this can end badly ( for the moose)
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I see often on postings about range and drop - that can be established with range finder and tables or practice. The "killer" for most who focus on drop, is the amount of windage allowance needed - that is the true challenge... So, so much more "real" after 300 yards, than before that distance - just learning so for myself these days...
 
Ethically you are on slippery ground. Not going to sound off on it... I live in the desert out here. Getting closer can be a problem... sometimes you have to do the right thing. No 'cast in stone' rules on distance that is ethically proper.
That's my 2 cents
 
StoneHorse said:
Maybe you should become more of a proficient hunter rather than just a shooter. Why/what is preventing you from getting closer?
:stirthepot2:
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A warm, sheltered location to shoot from, easy truck access to the animal for removal and good, early morning light to see them.

So In a word laziness.

Sounds like 308 will be too weak. I've been watching the moose for the last 2 weeks and we have other options but the long range shot seemed like the easiest.

Thanks for your help.
 
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first you need exceptionally good glass on the rifle and equally exceptional spotting scope so you can read the wind at your target.
Lots can happen to a bullet past a couple hundred yards.
The 7mm Rem Mag is popular for reaching out on long range shots

I have been able to do a fair amount of 500 to 1000 meter shooting up in the mountains here with a very accurate 7mm RM but I don't have the glass or the shooting skills to trust that I am putting the bullet precisely where it needs to go on an animal. Target shooting is different as it is a much more relaxed and predictable affair.... the target doesn't move.
I like to think I have good shooting skills but all that is based on targets out to 700meters and things fall apart beyond that due to glass and it is a hunting rifle and not a long range target rifle.
275 yards measured on mid range bushnell range finder , is the furthest shot I have taken on a game animal. That was a mule deer with an m14 type rifle in .308 with a 160-ish grain nosler partition. All the other animals I have shot have been 200 yards or less and most fall into the 20 to 100 yard range.

I opt to get closer in every scenario I can think of but if I lived in the wide open country of the prairies where deer are out in the grasslands or hunting those antelope.... I would probably try and get better glass and put the range time in to develop better long range skills.

I like the 7mm rem mag , on paper it is probably the top of the heap for mid to long range hunting performance with bullet selections to suit every hunting scenario
 
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seamusm said:
Does 308 have the power to take a moose at 600-700 metres? Any experience here with moose at that distance?

I ask because I will have the opportunity to hunt regularly (seasonally) on land where moose pop out of dense bush but I will be 600 metres away. Of course I'll try to get closer but I may not be able to.
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An optimized, high velocity, long range load (Hornady 178gr ELDx), from a 24 or 26" barrel will give 2650 fps MV +/-

600m retained velocity = 1768 fps / 1236 ft lbs energy
700m retained velocity = 1639 fps / 1062 ft lbs energy

To compare, a 30-30 Winchester, 170gr (2100 fos MV) load carries this level of performance from 110 to 150 meters, and a 303 British 180gr load (2450 fps MV) would offer similar impact performance from 270m to 330m

In my opinion, a 308 Win is a 400 yard moose cartridge under good conditions on a broadside animal
 
todbartell said:
An optimized, high velocity, long range load (Hornady 178gr ELDx), from a 24 or 26" barrel will give 2650 fps MV +/-

600m retained velocity = 1768 fps / 1236 ft lbs energy
700m retained velocity = 1639 fps / 1062 ft lbs energy

In my opinion, a 308 Win is a 400 yard moose cartridge under good conditions on a broadside animal
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I am inclined to agree with this opinion. I have not shot any moose beyond 550 meters, but even at that range, I have
been using a chambering that delivers considerably more ooomph than does the 308 Winchester. Dave.
 
I would not even think about shooting a moose at 600m

Maybe with a 338 win mag, 225 gr Nosler partitions, and a VERY solid rest. And a great scope. Maybe.
If there was little to no wind.

I would likely try to get closer.

You have to go get it anyway right?
 
Potashminer said:
Looking at tables in Nosler 7 manual, I am guessing that a 300 Win Mag could just deliver a 200 grain Accubond with sufficient velocity to expand at 700 meters (?), but does not appear that a Partition would make it at sufficient speed. Certainly, not the Protected Point version used in 300 Win Mag. No clue about 800 meters, since the Nosler tables only go to 600 yards. Requires that you first be able to put that bullet into the lungs - say 16" to 18" diameter target? Then, I suspect as much as a 1/4 mile of tracking to where the thing would eventually die. Table shows about 27" drop between 500 and 600. Will be more than that between 600 and 700. And more than that again between 700 and 800. I suspect a 25 or 30 yard error in range estimation would cause a miss of the kill zone. Can you make that shot?? Do not know windage numbers, but perhaps 1MOA or more wind drift, per mile per hour of full value wind at 800 meters? (8 MOA - 64" at 800 yards, in a ONE mph wind?) So an error of only one mile per hour wind speed (5 mph instead of 6, or vice versa), would also result in a significant miss of the kill zone. I do not compete, but I suspect that single, cold barrel shot would be a hellacious challenge to make for World Class "F"-class shooters with all the toys.

Not a "target shooting" thing - need to be sending a bullet with sufficient steam, to actually expand, to kill the beast, not simply perforate a paper target in the appropriate place. I suspect for most of us, that a moose at 700 or 800 meters should maybe be considered a "sighting", not a "target".
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my experience would validate this post.

handloaded 300WM 200grn Accubonds at 2960fps packs a punch, but I won't be shooting past 500m

I've shot a few over 300m and the drop starts to get significant around the 400m mark.

308 out to 600m, not going to be me pulling that trigger.

the 300WM load actually is very similar ballistically to my 25-06 with 110grn Accubonds.
 
Bigbubba said:
I would not even think about shooting a moose at 600m

Maybe with a 338 win mag, 225 gr Nosler partitions, and a VERY solid rest. And a great scope. Maybe.
If there was little to no wind.

I would likely try to get closer.

You have to go get it anyway right?
Click to expand...

The most accurate loading that I could discover for my 338 Win Mag happens to be 225 grain Accubond. About 2,800 fps with RL-19 - there are slightly speedier choices available. Surprisingly to me, not just a whole lot of drop difference with a full house 300 Win Mag with 200 Accubond. And getting very close to minimum required velocity for adequate expansion with the 338 load at 600 yards. That is a VERY long way out to be trying to kill game animals.

"Go get it anyway" - I was raised worse / stricter than that - our Dad would make us walk out all that way at everything we shot at, and then follow the tracks to ensure that we had not wounded it. He insisted that if we fired, that we had intended to kill - so better make absolutely sure of that...
 
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