308 bullets at 1000 yards for PR competition

Johnny Boom

Johnny Boom

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Just wondering what bullets people are using in their 308s (if anyone) for precision rifle (ORA, DCRA) matches out to 1000 yds.

I'm running a 20" barrel and I'm getting a bit concerned about velocity. Trying to stay supersonic out at 1000.
 
20" barrel for 1000...good luck. I would try 155gr as they wouldn't drop as much.

I have a Rem700AACSD (short barrel, but faster rifling), and at 600 yards I am still on paper but nothing spectacular in terms of group size. I've never shot at 1000yards so I am only assuming it would get much worse.

The one guy I know who shoots at 1000 has a 30" barrel and shoots 155gr Lapua Scenars.
 
I'm running the same rifle. I'm not too concerned about drop as I can dial it out, it's more about the transonic stability. That being said, 155s are on my list of things to try.

Currently, I'm running 185 gr Scenars at 2410 MV and they made it to the target at 800 yards. I think I did OK, but just waiting for the stats to be posted. :)
 
Use match grade 175's or 178's for 1,000 yard shooting. Don't think you'll stay fast out at 1,000 with any bullet out of a 20" barrel though. A Remington Premier Match 175 grain Matchking bullet runs about 1798 fps at 500. It'll be far less after another 500.
The speed of sound is about 1,125 ft/s at sea level.
I wouldn't worry too much about it though. The Palma guys using 14 plus pound, 32" barreled, rifles, use 155 grain bullets out that far. Think in terms of it being great fun.
 
There are guys that swear their 16" barrelled 308's will ring a gong at 1000 yards as good as any 30" barrelled 308....not sure what bullets they are using though.
 
I run 190 SMK out of my 22" Broughton @ 2540 fps and have no trouble making good hits at 1000 yards. With short barrels, you want to use bullets on the heavier side because the loads use less powder and you will have a more complete burn and lose less fps per inch of barrel than you will with the lighter bullets and larger powder charges.

ORA PR is only out to 900 yards max.
 
With a short barrel, heavy bullets are your friend; heavy bullets use lighter powder charges, and although muzzle velocities are lower, the greater BCs effectively extend the range compared to light bullets fired at the same pressure. Heavy VLDs are long, requiring a fast twist. The good news is that a bullet from a fast twist barrel is very stable, and this stability pays dividends when your bullet drops through the transonic velocity range, compared to the same bullet from a slower twist. A Matrix 210 gr VLD with a MV of 2400 fps crosses the 1000 yard line at about 1250 fps, while a 155 gr Sierra with a MV of 2700 is down to 1100 at 1000.
 
In addition to using a heavier bullet (really, I think it's just a bullet with a higher BC, isn't it?), wouldn't you want to use a faster burning powder to compensate for the shorter barrel?
 
My 22" bbl Remington all tuned up by ATRS shooting a 178gr Amax has no problems at 1000. About 2550 fps at muzzle and I'm up 36moa. Varget powder and Lapua brass. BC of the Amax is around .495
 
Incidentally, that 190 SMK out of a 22" barrel won the PR championship match a couple seasons ago. And, we were shooting against the Chous with their 284s... Nothing wrong with a short barrel!
 
Spyderfire1 said:
My 22" bbl Remington all tuned up by ATRS shooting a 178gr Amax has no problems at 1000. About 2550 fps at muzzle and I'm up 36moa. Varget powder and Lapua brass. BC of the Amax is around .495
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I just plugged this into a ballistics calculator.. the 190 GR SMKs have a .533 BC, so with 2550 FPS muzzle velocity, you're still going 1241 FPS at 1000 yards. So you're still supersonic at that range.

You also have a competition barrel though, right? Presumably with a tighter chamber? I wonder how these would perform in OP's rifle.

EDIT: Obviously the bullets would perform the same way, ballistically. What I mean is, I wonder how the same recipe would perform in terms of muzzle velocity with a different chamber and 2" less barrel.
 
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HeavyTread said:
In addition to using a heavier bullet (really, I think it's just a bullet with a higher BC, isn't it?), wouldn't you want to use a faster burning powder to compensate for the shorter barrel?
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While it might seem counter intuitive, the powder that produces the highest velocity in a long barrel also produces the highest velocity in a short one. I've had good luck with VV N-550, H-4350, and H-414 under the 210 gr Matrix. With 168s I used Varget to the exclusion of anything else, and I expect it would be a good choice with 178s. I'd be looking for a slower powder once bullet weight exceeded 180 grs.
 
Johnny Boom said:
Just wondering what bullets people are using in their 308s (if anyone) for precision rifle (ORA, DCRA) matches out to 1000 yds.

I'm running a 20" barrel and I'm getting a bit concerned about velocity. Trying to stay supersonic out at 1000.
Click to expand...

It'll also depend on your reloading skills. If starting out, I'd suggest using Sierra's (175 or 190 as kombayotch suggests) until you gain some experience to move onto bullets that may be a bit more touchy getting to work properly.

HeavyTread said:
I just plugged this into a ballistics calculator.. the 190 GR SMKs have a .533 BC, so with 2550 FPS muzzle velocity, you're still going 1241 FPS at 1000 yards. So you're still supersonic at that range.
Click to expand...

Be careful - it's not so much the supersonic line you need to be concerned about, it's also the transonic region. Try to be Mach 1.2 at target to be safe - some bullets transition better than others, but daily atmospheric deviations will cause you grief if you walk a fine line.
 
kombayotch said:
I run 190 SMK out of my 22" Broughton @ 2540 fps and have no trouble making good hits at 1000 yards. With short barrels, you want to use bullets on the heavier side because the loads use less powder and you will have a more complete burn and lose less fps per inch of barrel than you will with the lighter bullets and larger powder charges.

ORA PR is only out to 900 yards max.
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Thanks Kombayotch, do you know if you can run the 190 SMKs through an AI mag? I've been seating the 185s out to 2.850" COAL and it feeds OK.

I thought ORA PR was only shot out to 900, but there's a rumour going around that we might move it back a little bit... :)

Spyderfire1 said:
My 22" bbl Remington all tuned up by ATRS shooting a 178gr Amax has no problems at 1000. About 2550 fps at muzzle and I'm up 36moa. Varget powder and Lapua brass. BC of the Amax is around .495
Click to expand...

I tried the 178 AMAX riding up to 43.5gr of Varget and got an average of 2517 out of the stock Remington 20" barrel. Accuracy was good (sub MOA average), but not as consistent as the Lapua 185 Scenars especially near max, so I stopped testing. The AMAX seats further from the lands than the Scenar at the same COAL due to its shape, so that may be a factor.

HeavyTread said:
I just plugged this into a ballistics calculator.. the 190 GR SMKs have a .533 BC, so with 2550 FPS muzzle velocity, you're still going 1241 FPS at 1000 yards. So you're still supersonic at that range.

You also have a competition barrel though, right? Presumably with a tighter chamber? I wonder how these would perform in OP's rifle.

EDIT: Obviously the bullets would perform the same way, ballistically. What I mean is, I wonder how the same recipe would perform in terms of muzzle velocity with a different chamber and 2" less barrel.
Click to expand...

I'm running the stock barrel, bedded in a B&C medalist. The chamber is decent for a factory rifle from what I've been able to measure from the fired brass but it's still Remington factory.
 
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Johnny Boom said:
Thanks Kombayotch, do you know if you can run the 190 SMKs through an AI mag? I've been seating the 185s out to 2.850" COAL and it feeds OK.

I thought ORA PR was only shot out to 900, but there's a rumour going around that we might move it back a little bit... :)
Click to expand...

Mine are loaded to 2.185" on the bullet comparator, which is about 2.775" COAL. The barrel has a short Palma 95 chamber, which limits it to shorter than the AI mag. Loading it in Lapua brass with 210M primers and 42.4-42.9 gr. Varget (depending on the lot). I've shot out barrels with this load without touching the seating depth. The 190 SMK is a VERY forgiving bullet.

It would be great if we went back to 1k, definitely an advantage in training for NSCC. Training with smaller targets or at longer distances makes the actual ones seem easy.
 
kombayotch said:
Mine are loaded to 2.185" on the bullet comparator, which is about 2.775" COAL. The barrel has a short Palma 95 chamber, which limits it to shorter than the AI mag. Loading it in Lapua brass with 210M primers and 42.4-42.9 gr. Varget (depending on the lot). I've shot out barrels with this load without touching the seating depth. The 190 SMK is a VERY forgiving bullet.

It would be great if we went back to 1k, definitely an advantage in training for NSCC. Training with smaller targets or at longer distances makes the actual ones seem easy.
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I played with the end of a box of 190smk's and CFE223 to some very good results. I think the 190 is often overlooked for the newer stuff.


If the OP Seated longer in thinner federal or winchester brass and you might eek some speed out of her. Just my $0.02.
 
Look around the net, there is buzz about guys pushing a 208 A-max to 2600/2700 fps using RL-17. I have found my components but haven't had time to do any testing. This would seriously up the game of the 308!
 
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