308 M1 Garand with Norico ammo issues

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elvis3006

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I have been having minor feed issues, but i believe this was sorted out by not using the adjustable gas plug while using 308 ammo. I placed a USGI gas plug and that cured the short stroking problem. After that another problem developed, after 4 rds fired the spent casings would eject and hit my head. I am left handed but this was never a problem before, the ejected rounds would never hit me. I went through a process of elimination to find out what is causing this, I am starting to think that maybe the Nornico 308 is the issue. I suspected that perhaps it was an extractor or ejector problem, maybe even the op rod spring or op rod causing the rounds to eject hitting me. So i replaced every item in the bolt twice over with NOS parts minus the firing pin, still rounds ejecting off me cranium. Then i tried a completely different bolt with different internals, still the problem. Then i replaced the op rod spring 3 times still the same problem. Then i replaced the op rod itself, still the same problem :mad: What the hell could be causing this:confused: I am left to think that perhaps the Norinco ammo brass is too soft and is sticking in the extractor from time to time causing a delay when ejected and hitting me lol ? I never encountered this with other 308 brands. In this picture you can see the op rod, i believe it is fine. Any ideas guys, anyone fire Norinco ammo either through a 308 Garand or M14
 
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Pblatzz said:
Did you go back to another brand of ammo to see if the ammo was the problem?
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Pblatzz no i did not, all out of any other brand of 308. But what i did do, and i know not a smart thing due to possible headspace issue. I took the bolt out of my 3006 M1 and placed it in the 308 Garand, the ejecting rounds still hit my head. Then i took the 3006 bolt and placed back in the 3006 M1 and fired a clip of 3006 through it and the bolt and rifle worked fine.
 
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Elvis I believe the Norinco 762X51 ammo uses steel cases that are copper coated. Not near as ductile as brass, slower to seal up and slower to contract I believe. Is your chamber a .308 Win or a 762NATO cut chamber? Are the cases flying straight up and back down on your head, or being ejected back into your fore head or top?
 
RememberTheSomme said:
Elvis I believe the Norinco 762X51 ammo uses steel cases that are copper coated. Not near as ductile as brass, slower to seal up and slower to contract I believe. Is your chamber a .308 Win or a 762NATO cut chamber? Are the cases flying straight up and back down on your head, or being ejected back into your fore head or top?
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Hi, my barrel is a 308 cut chamber. Back in 1994 I shipped my M1 to Springfield in Genesio ILL and they placed a 308 barrel on it. The spent shell casings are flying directly back at me at mach 3 smacking me at the top part of my forehead.
 
Me, I would simply sell your remaining Norc ammo and buy quality ammo, especially given you're experiencing split necks and a "frustrating" ejection issue. It's a lot cheaper to buy better ammo than all the parts to try and change how your M1 ejects (especially since it seems not to be changing), and the barrel burnout. What you're shooting is far, far harder on your rifle than proper, quality ammunition. You're actually shooting a valuable gun too, you're not going to be worried about a $350 M14 but your M1s nice stuff.

Norc steel case is about as hard on a .308 / x51 as .308 / x51 ammo gets, there was an excellent barrel life test using steel case versus quality ammo (Federal) in the mouse guns / .223s by some American group, and the low quality ammo can reduce barrel life by as much as half if memory serves. Steel cases are harder on your action as well, in the end it doesn't look so cheap to me anymore especially given the mediocre accuracy. If you're hoarding ammo for when the zombies come, it's perfect, for actual shooting I'd buy a case of quality Fed or Win.
 
Ardent said:
Me, I would simply sell your remaining Norc ammo and buy quality ammo, especially given you're experiencing split necks and a "frustrating" ejection issue. It's a lot cheaper to buy better ammo than all the parts to try and change how your M1 ejects (especially since it seems not to be changing), and the barrel burnout. What you're shooting is far, far harder on your rifle than proper, quality ammunition. You're actually shooting a valuable gun too, you're not going to be worried about a $350 M14 but your M1s nice stuff.

Norc steel case is about as hard on a .308 / x51 as .308 / x51 ammo gets, there was an excellent barrel life test using steel case versus quality ammo (Federal) in the mouse guns / .223s by some American group, and the low quality ammo can reduce barrel life by as much as half if memory serves. Steel cases are harder on your action as well, in the end it doesn't look so cheap to me anymore especially given the mediocre accuracy. If you're hoarding ammo for when the zombies come, it's perfect, for actual shooting I'd buy a case of quality Fed or Win.
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That is very interesting, i was not aware that steel case can do damage. Fortunetly i have not put too many Norinco rounds through it, i bought this stuff mostly for my Semi auto 1919A4. I will not use this ammo through my M1 anymore and i will try quality ammo and see if the ejected rounds bounce off my head still.
 
You're confusing steel case (hard on extractor and ejector) with bi metallic jacket (hard on the rifling and throat of the barrel).

The norc ammo is copper jacket and will not harm the barrel any more than any other ammo.

In this case it seems to be more of an annoyance in that it changes the ejection angle, than damaging the barrel.


Ardent said:
Norc steel case is about as hard on a .308 / x51 as .308 / x51 ammo gets, there was an excellent barrel life test using steel case versus quality ammo (Federal) in the mouse guns / .223s by some American group, and the low quality ammo can reduce barrel life by as much as half if memory serves. Steel cases are harder on your action as well, in the end it doesn't look so cheap to me anymore especially given the mediocre accuracy. If you're hoarding ammo for when the zombies come, it's perfect, for actual shooting I'd buy a case of quality Fed or Win.
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I had an M1 built with a new .308 barrel just to fire the cheap stuff out of it. I have not had any issues including the brass hitting my head. But it does eject everything out the 4 or 5 oclock position. My lefty friend hates the rifle as he cant shoot it because of this. Are you left handed per chance? Maybe this specific ammo alters the ejection enough to send the brass flying your way?

Not saying it would be the fault of the shooter but maybe if the brass was just missing you before, the way your rifle spits out Norinco just wont work with you.

Also can't the ejectors on m1's and m14's be tuned to eject at different angles to clear scope bases for example.
 
Another thing besides the steel case is that you said your chamber is 308. That norc ammo is 7.62x51. Most the time most rifles can handle either or, but maybe yours is more sensitive to running 7.62x51. Have you run other 7.62x51 in it or just .308 win?
 
Throttle_monkey1 said:
Another thing besides the steel case is that you said your chamber is 308. That norc ammo is 7.62x51. Most the time most rifles can handle either or, but maybe yours is more sensitive to running 7.62x51. Have you run other 7.62x51 in it or just .308 win?
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I see what you are saying, true it is 308 and the norc ammo is 7.62x51. I have run surplus IVI 7.62x51 and Santa Barbara Spanish 7.62x51 through many times in the past and never had this happen.
 
RaTFiNk306 said:
I had an M1 built with a new .308 barrel just to fire the cheap stuff out of it. I have not had any issues including the brass hitting my head. But it does eject everything out the 4 or 5 oclock position. My lefty friend hates the rifle as he cant shoot it because of this. Are you left handed per chance? Maybe this specific ammo alters the ejection enough to send the brass flying your way?

Not saying it would be the fault of the shooter but maybe if the brass was just missing you before, the way your rifle spits out Norinco just wont work with you.

Also can't the ejectors on m1's and m14's be tuned to eject at different angles to clear scope bases for example.
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Yes Iam left handed, and this has only started happening since shooting this norc ammo. I am really starting to believe its the ammo and not the rifle, BTW when the spent cases are not pinging off my favorite casing they are ejecting at the 5 o clock position.
 
john@ said:
You're confusing steel case (hard on extractor and ejector) with bi metallic jacket (hard on the rifling and throat of the barrel).

The norc ammo is copper jacket and will not harm the barrel any more than any other ammo.

In this case it seems to be more of an annoyance in that it changes the ejection angle, than damaging the barrel.
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Fair point, you're correct and my mistake I thought the Norc x51 was bimetal. There's quite well documented accelerated wear with the Norc .223, which is even brass case on this forum. Not sure if the .308 suffers the same issues, in the .223 it was attributed to slightly undersize and / or irregularity sized bullets allowing increased erosion. Quality ammo is going to be a good call overall.
 
Ardent said:
Fair point, you're correct and my mistake I thought the Norc x51 was bimetal. There's quite well documented accelerated wear with the Norc .223, which is even brass case on this forum. Not sure if the .308 suffers the same issues, in the .223 it was attributed to slightly undersize and / or irregularity sized bullets allowing increased erosion. Quality ammo is going to be a good call overall.
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Can you point me in the direction of the info on increased wear from Norinco 223?
 
I believe the norc ammo was key-holing in some barrels that were already well worn. Most people have not had any issues and most pulled bullets measured at .224

There was a wild theory out there that someone had thought the bullets were entering the rifling too fast causing wear.
 
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