308 norma magnum

F

fan6.5

New member
EE Expired
Rating - 100%
5   0   0
Location
n.s hants co.
i love to shoot odd stuff. custom p17 show up and stayed.what kind of groups should iexpect .i am getting under 3 at 150 yards with 180 norma. 8power baush from 60s mounted. does anyone have similar gun with norma markings. she came sasktoon 25 yrs ago.any info would be ahelp.:adult:
 
Many M17 Enfields were first sporterised in 30-06, then rechambered to 308 NM as the magnum craze of the late 50's/early 60's hit. Accuracy will very much depend on the individual rifle/load combination. My 308 NM is a Parker Hale Super Safari, essentially a commercial Mauser action. There are at least two other 308 NM/358 NM threads going on here right now, do a search. - dan
 
Get a set of dies and reload if you don't already.IMR 4350 for 150gr bullets and H4831 for 180's.........FL size 7mm Rem mag brass and load, cheaper than Norma.............Harold
 
Friend out in Nfld got one of these, thought it was a regular .308. So he got hold of me when it was 'busting its shucks' and asked why he was getting FLAMES out of it when he fired it.

Well, it was a brand-new Parker-Hale and it was stamped ".308NM", so I knew what to do. I made him up some .308 Norma Magnum (which was not available at that time) and gave it to him.

He took a round out of the box and looked at it and said, "Lord thunderin' Jaysus! If that's a NORMAL Magnum, I don't ever want to see a ABNORMAL one!"

A much-ignored cartridge that deserved better than it got.
 
fan6.5;
We currently still have two .308 Normas, the first I built on a 98 action for my wife. Then because I liked hers so much and she wanted me to stop banging up her nice stock, I built the next one for me on a Ruger 77 tang model action.

I've played with at least two other Normas over the years as well I think - the coffee is just kicking in here.

With most loads we've tried, our Norma's are able to equal the speed we can get out of a 26" barreled Ruger No. 1 in .300WinMag usually without any difficulty. I'll note that the Normas have 2" less barrel than the .300WinMag and they usually equal it's speed with about a grain or two less powder.

I've tried everything from H-4895 on the fast side to H-870 on the slow side in our Norma's and have been able to get accepable results with a wide variety of powders and bullets ranging from 110gr. IVI bullets to 220gr. Hornady RN bullets.

While we used to shoot exclusively 165gr. Hornady BT Spires at local deer and coyotes with great success, lately I've been playing with the 168gr. TSX in mine and have been very happy with the results on two local deer.

As a by the way, in the days before everyone was running turrets and had range finders, we used the Normas to "surprise" some local coyotes who thought they were far enough away to be safe....if one is so inclined, the .308 Norma can hit things quite far away sometimes. :cool:

I've also used 200gr, Partitions on deer and 220gr. Hornady RN on one moose and at least one deer before I stopped using them and switched to the Partition load.

My current favorite powder is Reloder 19 with the 168gr. TSX, but I'd try H & IMR 4831, H & IMR 4350 and Reloder 22 for fun as well.

Lastly, I've used very little "real" Norma brass as it was not locally available when the first one was put together in the early '90's. Instead I either neck down .338WinMag brass or neck up 7mmRemMag brass, using a fire forming load to blow the shoulder forward.

The resulting cases are a wee bit shorter than Norma brass, but if it's been a problem with either accuracy or anything else, we haven't noticed it in the last couple of decades.;)

Hopefully that was some use to you. Good luck with your new Norma.

Regards,
Dwayne
 
struff55 said:
B.C.30 Just wondering on your 308NM velocities what model chronograph you used.
Click to expand...

My 308 Norma loads are
Imr4350 69gr - 165 gr Sierra sp 2930'/sec
Imr4350 68gr- 200 gr nosler partition 2750'/sec
Imr4350 68.5gr-200 gr nosler partition 2772'/sec
Imr4350 69gr-200gr nosler partition 2789'/sec.
This is with chrony f1 and p/h rifle which in my opinion is vastly underated, my handloads go into 1 " at 100meters if im having a good day. Hope this helps.
 
While the .308 Norma is a good, forgotten cartridge, I'm trying to get my head around, using a smaller case, less powder, and a shorter barrel, to get more velocity then a bigger cartridge. I have read about this same kind of phenominal result from the .300 WSM over the .300 Win. Mag., they are indeed, magical calibers.
 
good info. i appreciate hearing what people have to say about 308nrm.being an oddball i love,but can anyone help with gear to reload it .dies and more brass,factory stuff too much coin.just because she s old and almost forgotten doesnt mean icant have fun with.
 
struff55 said:
B.C.30 Just wondering on your 308NM velocities what model chronograph you used.
Click to expand...

struff55;
I’ve been using one of the first Chrony models, an F-1 in the red box with the older style light diffusers. It has been pretty consistent overall, but does like brighter days as opposed to overcast ones.

As a by the way, about 5 years after I’d been using it, two other shooting buddies got the newer model Chronys and we lined up all three to see how much variation they would show. As I recall, there was really none to speak of.

So for loads that worked out well for us we have in the ’98 action Norma:

• 76.5gr H-4831(Surplus), Fed. 215 Primer, 165gr. Hornady BT at 3060fps
• 78gr. H-4831(Surplus), Fed. 215 Primer, 150gr. Rem. Cor-Lokt at 3120fps
• 78gr. H-4831, Fed. 215 Primer, 150gr. Cor-Lokt at 3040fps
• 80gr. H-4831 (Surplus), Rem 9½ Mag. Primer, 110gr IVI for 3150fps
• 72gr. H-4831 (Surplus), Rem 9½ Mag. Primer, 200gr Partition for 2660fps
• The Norma factory 180gr. load went 2960fps in this rifle.

For loads that worked well in the Ruger 77 action Norma:

• 76gr. H-4831, Fed. 215 Primer, 165gr. Hornady BT for 3030fps
• 75gr. H-4831 (Surplus), Federal 215 Primer, 180gr. Hornady BT for 2943fps
• 63gr H-4895, CCI 250 Primer, 165gr Barnes X for 2960fps
• 75gr. H-450, CCI 250 Primer, 165gr. Barnes X for 2940fps
• 70gr. H-4831 (Surplus), CCI 250 Primer, 200gr. Partition for 2715fps.
• 78.2gr. IMR 4350, Rem 9½ Mag. Primer, 125gr. Ballistic Tip for 3480fps
• 72gr. H-4831, Rem 9½ Mag. Primer, 200gr Partition for 2750fps
• 74gr. VV N160, Rem. 9½ Mag. Primer, 165gr. Hornady BT w/moly for 3035fps
• 75gr. RL 19, Rem. 9½ Mag. Primer, 168gr Barnes TSX for 3003fps
• 74gr H-4831, Rem. 9½ Mag. Primer, 168gr. Barnes TSX for 2901fps

Loads for comparison in the Ruger No. 1 .300Win Mag – 26” barrel:

• 75gr. VV N160, CCI 250 Primer, 165gr. Hornady BT w/moly for 2973fps
• 77gr. H-4831, CCI 250 Primer, 165gr. Hornady BT w/moly for 3029fps
• 68gr. RL 19, CCI 250 Primer, 200gr. Partition for 2699fps
• 72gr. RL19, CCI 250 Primer, 180gr, Hornady InterBond for 2867fps

While there is a lot of data to digest there, hopefully it is useful to someone.

Regards,
Dwayne
 
The 308 Norma Magnum is my favorite 30 cal magnum, especially in a Schultz & Larsen.

SchultzLarsenM-65DL308NM.jpg


I'm in the process of working up a load using Barnes TSX and/or TTSX bullets but the following is what I've been using and its performed well on paper and on game.

308NormaMag.jpg


While it works well in my firearm it may not do so for you. An item of note for example is my C.O.A.L. exceeds the recommended maximum however I have the length available in my magazine to handle it.
 
There's another point to be made here as well.

Ellwood Epps used the .308 Norma as the basis for his .303 Epps Magnum, which was a .308 Norma case with a .312" slug. He chambered them in P.-'14s, marked them as ".303 Magnum" and I believe he chambered a few Rosses as well, although it would have been more work.

I ran into one just this afternoon when a school friend asked me to look at his son-in-law's .308 Norma because the slugs were hitting the target sideways. Rifle was a very nice P.-'14 made into a sporter, Winchester make, s/n 213### and somebody has spent money having it Mag-na-ported. Problem was evident immediately, as both chamber and the top of the barrel were clearly stamped ".303 MAGNUM". I don't know if Ellwood made the rifle or not, but it was, at one time, a popular conversion.

Being that I have the dies, you have one guess what my next job will be.....

Hoist on my own petard!

Keep the Big Mouth shut next time!
 
I've also seen P14 rifles rechambered for the 300 Win mag case necked up for .311-.312 bullets. Also one rechambered for the 311 Imperial Canadian Magnum (now, that's a title), and one that was rechambered and rebored for a 300 Win Mag case necked up for 9.3 mm (.366) bullets. Ah, good times. - dan
 
ben hunchak said:
While the .308 Norma is a good, forgotten cartridge, I'm trying to get my head around, using a smaller case, less powder, and a shorter barrel, to get more velocity then a bigger cartridge. I have read about this same kind of phenominal result from the .300 WSM over the .300 Win. Mag., they are indeed, magical calibers.
Click to expand...

Ben it all comes down to how efficient the case is in relation to the bore size
the 300wm is overbore capacity as is the wthrby
the 308norma uses the powder more efficiently creating decent velocity with less powder
get your hands on a P.O. Ackley book and it tells you all about over bore capacity and its relation to velocity


Cam
 
Camk said:
Ben it all comes down to how efficient the case is in relation to the bore size
the 300wm is overbore capacity as is the wthrby
the 308norma uses the powder more efficiently creating decent velocity with less powder
get your hands on a P.O. Ackley book and it tells you all about over bore capacity and its relation to velocity


Cam
Click to expand...

:)I lucked out a short while back. Prior to my taking early retirement, one of the guys I worked with gave me P.O. Ackleys volume I and volume II Handbook For Shooters & Reloaders. The guy no longer shoots so he said I could have them. Excellent reload info on standard cartridges as well as some of the more obscure wildcats and experimental stuff. And, as you've mentioned, a lot of excellent technical info as well. These two volumes by Ackley go well with info like Pet Loads by Ken Waters and an 'oldie' like Twenty-Two Caliber Varmint Rifles by Charles S. Landis.
 
ben hunchak said:
While the .308 Norma is a good, forgotten cartridge, I'm trying to get my head around, using a smaller case, less powder, and a shorter barrel, to get more velocity then a bigger cartridge. I have read about this same kind of phenominal result from the .300 WSM over the .300 Win. Mag., they are indeed, magical calibers.
Click to expand...
ben hunchak;
The Normas that we've played with haven't really been magic in any way. We've got a couple "magic" AI's too and they have proven to be anything but magic. Fine cartridges no doubt, but not magic in my experience.

All things being equal, I believe that the larger case will always give more velocity than a smaller case - again all things being equal.

Alas, "all things" in my experience have seldom been equal.

If you care to slog through the data I put up on two .308 Normas and one .300 Win Mag, you can see that the Normas are quite close with the same loads and the 26" barreled .300 Win. Mag isn't much faster, but uses a bit more powder.

That could be because the Normas are more efficient, but could also be that the barrels and chambers on the Normas are tighter - which makes some sense as the Normas were custom chambered with a no-name and a new Parker Hale barrel used on them and the Ruger being a stock barrel from the era of "iffy" barrels from their supplier.

One would also note that with the exception of the 125gr BT load using IMR4350, none of the loads are really very fast - certainly slower than many seem to achieve with those cartridges.

A good friend, now passed on had a .300WSM in a Savage and an older Remington 700 in .300 H&H which we ran over the chronographs a bit as well. I can't recall specific loads, but they were all pretty close to what I was getting with the Normas and the No. 1 .300WM.

He also had a Winchester Model 70 in .300 Weatherby that was slower than any of them and another friend had a Remington 700 in .300WinMag that was always 150fps faster than we thought it should be- while showing no pressure signs.

That said, I can't help but think that the pressure had to be there as evidenced by the resulting velocities we were getting out of it.

So in the end nowadays, I pretty much treat every gun as an individual and use the loading manuals as guidelines for recipes and then very carefully work up loads using the chronograph.

I quit when the increments of additional powder cease to match up to the increments of speed increases or when I hit the book max charge, whichever comes first. The resulting speed is what it is and I work around it.

So then some fast .308's have run with some slow '06's with certain powders and one '06 I played with would run with our Norma's for speed using 165gr. Speers - it sprayed them all over, but was it ever fast!

Hopefully that all was some use to you. I hope you all have as much fun unlocking the mysteries of your individual rifles as I continue to have.

When I get rifles all figured out, I'm quitting and going to take up fishing!

Regards,
Dwayne
 
The 308 Norma Magnum has long been my favorite "big" 30. The difference in capacity between a WW, 300 Win Mag Case and a Norma, 308 Norma case is absolutely zip. This will account for the velocities developed in many Norma Mags. The original loading for the 308NM was a 180 grain "dual core" bullet at 3100 fps. The chronograph often showed these to be a bit faster than advertised in a 24" tube. The Winchester Factory offering, while advertised at 3070 fps, always 'graphed around 3000. Both WW and Norma have tamed their ammo a bit in recent years. My pet load for decades hasbeen the 180 Partition and 75 grains of Norma MRP. This gives me 3065 in my 24" PH Model 82 Classic.
I also use H1000 with the 200 Partition, for velocities that are so close to 3000 it is not worth mentioning. I have taken a lot of Elk and Moose with the 308 Norma, and from 15 yards to 600, it is an effective big game cartridge. Magical it is not, but it is still the best designed big 30 out there. JMHO, Eagleye.
 
Camk said:
Ben it all comes down to how efficient the case is in relation to the bore size
the 300wm is overbore capacity as is the wthrby
the 308norma uses the powder more efficiently creating decent velocity with less powder
get your hands on a P.O. Ackley book and it tells you all about over bore capacity and its relation to velocity


Cam
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I agree 100% with the overbore claim on the 300's anymore Cam (except in a mathematical sense). With today's powders it is much, much easier to find one that burns completely and efficiently in those bigger cases then it used to be. Having said that, and having owned quite a few 30 Cal magnums over the years, I haven't seen a lot of velocity difference or even much accuracy difference between them. The Wby is usually a little faster, and the 308 NM is usually a little more accurate when all my numbers are averaged out, but it really is splitting hairs. FWIW - dan
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom