338 Mystic Background Info

Mystic Precision

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Since there has been no shortage of questions on this wildcat, here is the background.

Why? To build an economical cartridge to launch very high BC match bullets at extreme distances for target and hunting. A "BMG" without the hassles.

This cartridge is based on an improved and modified 300RUM with a long throat. The goal is to launch the 300gr Sierra MK at over 3000fps in long barrels.

My rifle has a 36" barrel, 34.5" rifled with an integral muzzle port/brake.

This family of cartridges is lead by the 338-416 Rigby improved and 338-378 Weatherby (reg. and improved verions). These cannons can easily push a 300grMK at 3100 to 3300fps in long barrels. Serious horsepower but brass is expensive, not always easy to find and life short.

My 338 Mystic and the 338 Tomahawk came about when the 300RUM came out. There was now a readily available and inexpensive source of large capacity brass. Case capacity will never be the same but gets you close. Long throating allows for max amount of case capacity. These rifles are all single feed except if you put them into BMG sized action. OAL exceeds 3.3".

In long barrels, 3000 to 3200fps have been reached with great accuracy. This can only be accomplished with very slow powders. The most commonly used are surplus pulldown from BMG and Vulcan ammo. Yep, burn rates just a bit faster then wet sawdust.

This allows one to approach 100% load density. Powder charges for my RUM based wildcats exceed 100gr. Some rifles have run up as far as 110gr. That's toasty.

By comparision, the Rigby and Wby monsters get into the 115 to 125gr range. The Lapua in the low 90's. 340Wby in the 80's.

For those interested in the biggest baddest LR cannon that you don't need boutique or single component source, the 338-300RUM based wildcats are it for now. Best part is that any quality magnum action can house this case. So you don't need to splurge for expensive actions unless you want to build BR quality rigs.

Factory and large surplus actions (Enfield P14's) with a quality barrel can easily produce 1/2MOA or better accuracy. Barrel blocks are common fare to help balance/hold barrels that weight well over 10lbs and 36".

These type of rifles are definitely not for walking about hunting. Shot from portable benches and pedestal rests, these are designed to make extreme range hits possible. Mine will exceed 35lbs when ballasted.

Are they necessary for extreme range plinking? Not anymore. new bullets in 7mm and 6.5mm offer very similar ballistics for way less recoil and costs.

However, if you want horsepower way out there, bore size and bullet weight will always win.

Jerry
 
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For whatever reason, the 338 RUM is smaller then the 300 and 7 RUM.

About 5 to 7% smaller. By basing on the 300RUM case and improving it, you gain 10 to 15% over the 338 RUM.

These are small increases but when trying to push very heavy bullets as fast as possible, every little bit helps.

No different then going to these long barrels. The actual increase in velocity per inch is not huge (10 to 20fps per inch) but when you add 10 to 16" to a barrel, that's free horsepower/velocity you don't need to make up with larger case capacity and powder.

Starting 100 to 200fps faster matters when you are trying to stay supersonic beyond one mile and engaging targets beyond 2000yds.

Jerry
 
prosper said:
I'm confused - this sounds like a 338RUM w/ a longer throat?
Actually longer to the shoulder. As Jerry says, the 338 RUM is a shorter case (due if memory serves, to the length of 338 bullets and the requirement of col within the Rem actions with factory ammo) then the 300 or 7mm RUM. By necking 300 cases up (or 375 RUM cases down) you end up with slightly more case capacity, and by improving the case, you get a little more yet. An elegant, inexpensive (relatively) way to get super 338 velocities without going broke (ok, too broke). You have a reamer for this Jerry? I may have to put one of these together for s&g. - dan
 
dan, shooting 338 heavy match bullet and 100+gr of powder is never cheap... but the fun factor is WAAAYYYYY up there. You already feed two very hungry children so you know.

Yep, have the reamer and throater. Even had Lee make a set of dies. Kind of neat having the dies stamped for your wildcat.

Bevan King made the barrel and install. Not sure how happy he was with making these long barrels. So far, the 300 RUM he made is shooting very well so expect similar with the 338. 36" is as long as he can/wants to make so you need to look stateside if you want a longer pipe.

With short barrels (under 30"), there is not a big gain over smaller cases. However, in these long pipes, things get very interesting.

I have seen a few 42" barreled cannons and the increase in velocity is tangible. I think trying to control that barrel in a block or whatever, is the real feat.

I think Dan Lilja still has pics of these cannons built using his barrels.

If I build another, I will look at what Pac Nor can do in a super long barrel for the Savage action. Prechambered and threaded sounds like the way to go. I am sure that they would have no issue if I supplied the reamer and guages.

But maybe, I will be too poor after shooting this one and the other cannons in the arsenal.

Jerry
 
Ted Gaillard has the reamer for the 338-300 Ultra mag and the the regular 338 UM, I think i'll be going to the standard 338 UM for my hunting rifle but for the intended purpose of Mysticplayer the improved version sounds like the best way to get there without breaking the bank.
 
mysticplayer said:
snip
Bevan King made the barrel and install. Not sure how happy he was with making these long barrels. So far, the 300 RUM he made is shooting very well so expect similar with the 338. 36" is as long as he can/wants to make so you need to look stateside if you want a longer pipe.

With short barrels (under 30"), there is not a big gain over smaller cases. However, in these long pipes, things get very interesting.

I have seen a few 42" barreled cannons and the increase in velocity is tangible. I think trying to control that barrel in a block or whatever, is the real feat.

snip

Don't you have a problem with serious jacket fouling at over 29" ?

I've been told (by fairly experienced shooters/experimenters) that at these high velocities the jackets start melting once you're past about 29" leading to serious copper fouling.

Is this true in your experience, or is there some way around it like "moly coating" the projectiles?

D
 
Most rifles of this nature are built using bench rest quality barrels. No one else makes lower grade barrels that long. Since these are lapped and baby butt smooth, I have never heard fouling to be an issue.

Bevan King is unique in that he makes a pretty good quality barrel but does not lap them. They usually don't foul excessively. However, the one on my 300RUM does foul and needs to be cleaned every 20rds or so for best performance.

I do use moly but doesn't seem to help in this case.

A sample size of one does not lead to any support for or against your statement. I simply have not heard it as a problem but THIS barrel does foul.

however, much shorter barrels foul quite badly in a variety of cals and speeds. I don't think barrel length is a determining factor.

We will need to build more rifles to get more data. Ah the scrafices in the name of science...:)

Jerry
 
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