338 Xtreme Tactical

alberta tactical rifle said:
I would expect "408 Chey Tac" what else;)
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Here is what was passed on to me regarding the new brass:

Jameson has been producing new batches of 375CT and 408CT. My bud on the US side has a 375, said that with his first batch of brass he was loosing about 7% of rounds in first firing as the primer pockets would no longer hold a primer. Also, weight was all over the map. New batch is all very close in weight (less than 1.5gr spread over 300 rounds) and none lost on first round firing.

Sounds promising. 408 brass headstamped 408 Chey Tac as per Rick.
 
For anyone that wants to know a little more about what's been going on with the 408 brass check out the long range hunting form and do a search.

Kirby Allen has been working with Jameson to get the brass up to par so that he can use it for his Allen Magnums which are improved 408 cheytac's necked down to 338 and 375.

Like Rick from ATR had said earlier in this thread, Kirby was having alot of problem with the brass life but he now seems to have it figured out. He says the brass is now good for at least 4 shots at near max load. Don't know if that is indeed the case or not but I am going to give it a try anyway.

Kirby now offers formed brass (from Jameson) with his headstamp in the 338AM and 375AM.

This is all kind of old news on the other form. He is currently building me a 375AM and it will be ready sometime in August. My order of brass and 375cal 350gr sierra match kings should be here in the next few weeks along with the custom dies Kirby provides.

Here's a pic of what it should look like. I made a few mods but it will be pretty close.

338AMXtremeHeavySporterright.jpg


Sorry if this is a bit of a Hijack. Just thought it has a little to do with the topic at hand.


Dave
 
I'd imagine this gun would weigh somewhere in the neighborhood of 20lbs ish with scope or is it heavier? My Lapua weighs about 19lbs with scope. One thing I'm not sure of is why Kirky decided to put the extractor right through one of the two locking lugs on his actions. To me, that doesn't make a lot of sense.
I had no idea Sierra made a high BC 375cal 350gr bullet. What is the BC of that bullet and do you know how fast it will be going?
 
Yep the gun should weigh in around the 20lb mark when finished.

The gun I'm having built by "Kirky"(nice!) is built on a BAT Model M 8.5". Not sure which action your talking about but I think the reason for having the extractor in the mid point of the lug is to kick the brass straight out the side instead of at an upward angle that will hit the scope turret. I don't think there would be a bolt lug strength issue in doing this but I'm not sure.

The Sierra bullets are made OEM for Cheytac and I had read that the B.C. is around mid .8. Not a drastic improvment over the 338 300SMK. I hope that someone else starts making even higher BC bullets soon. There are alot of guys saying they are going to but no one has produced any yet. Untill then the sierra's will do a good job but once a higher BC bullet is produced this will be a hard combo to beat when it comes to ballistics. Right now Kirby and some of the guys that already have the 375AM are pushing the 350gr bullet around 3200fps and that is not a max load.

It will cost around 4$ per reload if you factor in the Brass cost based on 4 reloads per peice. I can't remember what a 50 cal costs per reload but I think it's a fair amount more.

So this gun will have a better ballistic trajectory than a fifty, cost less to shoot, and not as much recoil. The only thing it gives up is a lower BC (for now) which means a little more wind drift and not as much down range energy due to the lighter bullet. Should be alot of fun!


Dave
 
The picture that was posted of Kirby's action with the fruited bolt and barrel is his action or at least it has his name on it and that's one of the ones that cuts one of the locking lug down by 50% to allow for the extractor. I took a close look at my Nesika and they had the extractor cut in just above the locking lug.
The bolt knob on Kirby's action doesn't thrill me much either. With such a big action, leverage is something needed to cycle a bolt properly. I guess one could argue that if it's put together properly, you shouldn't need a crazy huge knob but in the same way, something that is slightly larger then the head of a cue tip has it's advantages as well.
I know there's something about re-inventing the wheel that has it's lighter points but it's hard to argue practical and functionality.
 
Glock-a-maniac said:
The picture that was posted of Kirby's action with the fruited bolt and barrel is his action or at least it has his name on it and that's one of the ones that cuts one of the locking lug down by 50% to allow for the extractor. I took a close look at my Nesika and they had the extractor cut in just above the locking lug.
The bolt knob on Kirby's action doesn't thrill me much either. With such a big action, leverage is something needed to cycle a bolt properly. I guess one could argue that if it's put together properly, you shouldn't need a crazy huge knob but in the same way, something that is slightly larger then the head of a cue tip has it's advantages as well.
I know there's something about re-inventing the wheel that has it's lighter points but it's hard to argue practical and functionality.
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I do believe Kirby is working on having an action built to his specs by a third party. I think he was having problems with the guys building them so they won't be ready for a while. Really don't care what his action is though, don't want one anyway, I can assure you however the gun I'm getting is a BAT model M 8.5" which is a well proven action to my knowledge unless you know something I don't.

As far as the bolt handle is concerned it's my understanding that when it comes to lifting, more leverage is good but when it comes to cycling to much can cause a lot of side force put on the raceways. Add a little dirt and galling is more likely to occur. That also happens to be a good reason to have a fluted bolt. With less surface area of the bolt contacting the raceways, there is less chance of galling, especially when the action gets a little dirty.

I do agree with you that when it comes to look and feel, a bigger handle would be better. Not sure exactly what I'll be getting for a handle, but if I don't like it I'll build one I do. Pretty easy Fix. However I would only make it bigger not longer, only the length determines the leverage. The handle in the picture I posted looks plenty long to me but your right, the q-tip size head would have to go.

Dave
 
On my first Nesika actioned 338LM AI, I had a fluted bolt and what I found was that the flutes made cycling the bolt rougher because of the amount of surface area disruption with every flute. On my second Nesika 338LM AI, I went with a solid bolt and definitely like it a lot more. I have a fluted bolt on my Nesika 308 and I didn't order it like that. Someone F**ked up on the manufacturing side but they've assured me a new bolt is on the way so I have to make due with what I have for now. Same thing though with the fluted bolt. When you pick up an action with a fluted bolt and cycle it vs the nonfluted bolt, you can feel a difference in how smooth it is. Also with the dry lube (gun Juice) I'm using I'm not getting dirt sticking to the bolt.

You can choose to answer this or not but why are you getting a gun built by Kirby Allen instead of someone in Canada. It's like buying a Leupold MK4 scope when it comes to warranty work and support. Have you seen his work up close? Who are you getting to import the rifle for you?

Regarding the BAT action, definitely a smooth action; possibly overbuilt for a lot of the benchrest stuff but since your action is quite large, that will probably be a benefit. Is it going to be mag fed or single shot? I agree with you on length of bolt vs size of knob though with regards to leverage vs torque on the raceways.
 
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Glock,

I can't say I've ever even held a fluted bolt so you definitely have more experience than me when it comes to fluted vs. non-fluted, and I'll take your word for it that a non-fluted bolt cycles better. With no extra cost however, I'm actually going with the diamond-fluted bolt. I can just imagine your take on that:D. Oh well, it's a good learning experience for me, and most important I'm sure it will have no effect on the accuracy of the gun. It is a single shot so how smooth it cycles will not matter that much to me as long as it closes. Not going to be shooting this one rapid fire.

Why Kirby? Your right I should be building it myself. I have the know how and the tools along with a fair bit of experience now but I didn't have the confidence at the time I place the order. I now wish I would have done this myself but what’s done is done.

Another way to look at it is Kirby is the only one I know of who has done extensive testing with a chey-tac wildcat. That is to say he has worked with Jameson to improve there 408 brass and now even offers "as new" Allen Mag brass, not formed from another case like most preformed wildcat brass. I have not see his work up close but many people seem very pleased with it, but I'll be the judge of that because alot of people do not know what to look for. At the end of the day his reputation and experience working with chey-tac wildcats made it an easy decision and after talking with him it made it that much easier.

The fact the gun is being built south of the border is of no concern to me. I don't like sending my money that way if I can help it (or if it saves me a pile) but when something I want can only be found in the U.S. that does not stop me. I know there are plenty of guys including myself here in Canada that could have built the gun but I might have had a hard time getting "ready to shoot" wildcat brass and 350gr SMK bullets from them.

As far as who is doing the import, it's my little secret for now. I assure you it's perfectly legal and the guy has his FFL and proper documents in place. As far as I know he is new at this so I'm not ready to throw the name around until I have finished dealing with him. I'd hate to give a bad referral before I have any experience.

Thanks for the questions, I'm starting to get pretty excited about this project. As always though I try to take everything with a grain of salt. For all I know it could be a huge waste of money but worst case I'll at least have an awsome action and stock to build another project.

Dave
 
You'll be happy to know that the diamond patterned bolts run smoother then the fluted ones. Also being a single shot, you'll be impressed. I think that BAT actions incorporate a proportionate length of bolt handle with knob size as well. At least that's the impression I got from handling them anyways.

I've never had any dealings with Kirby so since you've talked to him and your impression of him wasa positive, that's all that matters.

I'm going to have to look into those 350gr SMK bullets. What twist are you going with and who's barrel are you using?
 
Without going back and looking at my emails, I believe the twist was 1-10 and the barrel for sure is a 32" Lilja. I think I order it fluted cause I liked it at the time but really don't care one way or another now just as long as it has been properly stress relieved, which I'm sure Lilja does.

I tried to find out more about the bullets from sierra but got stonewalled. They just said the bullets are made only for cheytac and they would not say anything more. I thought about calling cheytac but at the end of the day I really hope someone come up with something better anyway. Preferably Canadian, maby someone who lives in Wetaskawin.

I just got some info from Accurate Bullet about there .375 and it sounds not bad but she did not tell me what the BC is and it is only 250gr. They are also coming out with lead core bullets soon so I'm hoping a high BC 350gr to 400gr .375 is in the works.

I'm hoping to have some ammo and maybe the gun by mid August, so you'll be able to check it out at Mutt's next shoot. Maby even bring it to the 50 cal shoot if I'm allowed.

Dave
 
I'll be bringing my Lapua to the 50cal shoot, not to compete with but just to shoot holes through steel with. Currently I'm doing load developement with 250gr SMK and I haven't found the top of the pressure even at 117gr of US869. I'll be loading up to 120gr probably and in there somewhere, I'll find the limit.

We'll be testing two types of brass turned 338 bullets both in 250gr but slightly different in weight distribution as soon as I nail down a decent load. Those bullets are going to drill through everything.
 
I take it your working with the 250gr SMK to find what the gun like's for a load when it comes to the brass bullets.

I would also try some Retumbo and see what it does, a little faster burning powder (at least I think it's faster) might not hurt and you might find a little extra velocity in there if the US869 is not getting a full burn. Also you will have a little more room in the case to put the extruded powder in cause your using a smaller bullet, however that might not be true with the brass turned bullets.

I know it's not comparing apples to apples but I've had excellent results with Retumbo in my 338RUM using the 250gr SMKs. When it comes to the 300gr SMKs the 869 seems to do a little better for me. Just a thought.

Anyway the 50 cal shoot should be alot of fun. Those rather large targets at 400m;) won't stand a chance with that kind of fire power around. Hope Jim brings another knome as well.:D

Dave
 
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