.357 loads in .38 cases

I read this thread out of curiosity. But, if you take a case that says .38SPL on it, and load it to the neck in powder.. isnt that just a .38+++?

Seeing as both bullets are the same diameter, arent you restricted in what you call it by the length of the case? .38's being shorter, and .357 being longer.
Do you understand what I am asking? its like saying pens and pencils are the same thing, when in fact they are not.
this guy is trying to make a pen from a pencil.
 
Boomer said:
Skeeter Skelton, Bill Jordan, and Elmer were among my favorites. Skeeter and Jordan had a thing going on in their respective columns where they hurled friendly insults towards each other - those were a lot of fun to read. Skeeter wrote short stories for Shooting Times with characters that would reappear from time to time. An old reprobate rancher-exlawman named Dobe Grant was loosely based on Bill Jordan.

My early .357 handloading closely reflects your experiences.
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The article by Skeeter Skelton was in an old issue of Gun Digest. I have it around somewhere and if I can find it I'll make some copies if anyone wants one - IF I can find it...

Skeeter was more than just the Sheriff of Deaf Smith Cty, he was also at one time the head Firearms Instructor for the Federal Law Enforcement Training Centre at Glynco Virginia. An extremely prolific and knowledgeable shooter and handloader.

I have loaded and shot 1000's of these loads (155 gr GCSWC-HP/13.5 gr 2400/.38 Spec brass) out of my N-Frame Smith .357's and Ruger SA's. The greatest danger as I see it is that one of these might find it's way into a J or K-Frame Smith or other lighter framed .38 - and that would not be pretty!!!

I don't do it any longer and advise that you don't either...
 
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If you want to try a newer powder that really performs in the 357 [either 357 or 38 Spl brass] Try Lil' Gun. Lower pressures with great velocities. My S&W 27 just loves this powder, and shoots very accurately with it. Regards, Eagleye.
 
H4831 said:
W231 is much too fast burning to be satisfactory in full power loads for a 357 magnum.
I had an Oehler 33 chronograph when I was doing the pistol shooting and I loaded, shot and chronographed identical loads in both 357 brass and 38 special brass. I used the proper powder for heavy loads, such as 2400 and
H110.
Goodby to this thread, this is the last of my contributions here.
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It was just an EXAMPLE.

I know very well that 231 is too fast for max performance, I was simply using it as as max PRESSURE load. Using a faster powder tends to exaggerate the peak pressures achieved.

Note that I didn't include charge weights???
 
hoochie said:
I read this thread out of curiosity. But, if you take a case that says .38SPL on it, and load it to the neck in powder.. isnt that just a .38+++?

Seeing as both bullets are the same diameter, arent you restricted in what you call it by the length of the case? .38's being shorter, and .357 being longer.
Do you understand what I am asking? its like saying pens and pencils are the same thing, when in fact they are not.
this guy is trying to make a pen from a pencil.
Click to expand...

Essentially a .357 is just a .38+++. Normal pressure for the .38 runs about 16000 psi and the .357 approaches 40,000. All external dimensions are the same, except the .357 was made slightly longer, not for powder capacity but so it could not be loaded in a .38 Special cylinder. A modern .357 case has a thicker web than does the .38, but I don't believe this was always so. However, the case is the limiting factor because a thin case will stick at lower pressure than a thick one. Due to the thicker web, of the modern .357 case, powder capacity is reduced; in other words you get more pressure in a .357 case trimmed to .38 Special length when compared to a .38 Special loaded with equal powder charges and identical bullets. I don't recall what year it happened, but factory .357 ammo was reduced in velocity, and loading manuals reduced their .357 loads, and I believe it was at that time that the thicker .357 web was standardized. Elmer Keith wrote that his .357 loads should be reduced by a half grain if loaded in .38 Special brass. Elmer wasn't known for wanting to load light powder charges in his hunting loads, and his 173 gr (Lyman #358429 is the same bullet listed as a 168 gr cast with #2 alloy) was considered the best .38 bullet for game. I stopped using it because I found that the plain base fouled the barrel badly when the bullet was cast soft enough to get the 173 gr weight.

I summery I would advise that brass is cheap, especially if you have access to once fired brass, so today you are better to use a .357 case for a .357 load. There are still instances where a heavy for caliber bullet loaded in .357 brass is too long for the cylinder (particularly Colt DA's) and a simple solution is to work up a load in .38 Special brass, or trim a .357 to .38 Special length and load accordingly.
 
mudgunner49 said:
The article by Skeeter Skelton was in an old issue of Gun Digest. I have it around somewhere and if I can find it I'll make some copies if anyone wants one - IF I can find it...

Skeeter was more than just the Sheriff of Deaf Smith Cty, he was also at one time the head Firearms Instructor for the Federal Law Enforcement Training Centre at Glynco Virginia. An extremely prolific and knowledgeable shooter and handloader.
Click to expand...

And lets not forget his years in the US Border Patrol, probably when he crossed paths with Jordan. The article you refer to was reprinted in a special Skeeter Skelton issue of Shooting Times. A Google search for "Skeeter Skelton" will give you access to lots of his articles.
 
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