375 Ruger African

[luv2safari]

Has the new Ruger Hawkeye 375 African or Alaskan gotten up your way yet? I sold off a couple of my older rifles and bought one about a month ago. I love the gun! I have to admit that it smacks me a bit more unforgivingly than my 375 H&H Mdl 70 or 458 Win 98 Mauser.

I'm thinking it may be a darned good elk/moose rifle.

 

[Boomer]

If the ballistics Ruger quotes are real and not hype, I'm not surprised it is getting your attention. Prudent handloading could make the cartridge a little kinder without loosing much authority.

 

[luv2safari]

Boomer,

I get just a tad under 2800 FPS out of the 270gr factory ammo and a bit over 2700 with the 300s. That was in cold weather in early March. I'll clock some more now that we are in the mid 80s and see if there is much difference.

Ruger still can't figure our what "RECOIL" pads are supposed to do. I don't have much room to complain, however. The original steel butt plate is still on my 1950s vintage Mdl 70 375 H&H.

This hawkeye is a joy to carry and shoulder in the trimmed down configuration.

 

[Slooshark1]

I just bought a Hawkeye in .358 Winchester. It comes up nice but I haven't had a chance to even fire one shot out of it yet. I topped it with a Leupold 1.5 x 5.

 

[sunray]

"...darned good elk/moose rifle..." Too much gun for either. And the ammo is horrendously expensive.

 

[agilent_one]

Too much gun for either.

Sorry. Must be a foreign concept?

And the ammo is horrendously expensive.

I dunno. Handloads?

 

[Gatehouse]

"...darned good elk/moose rifle..." Too much gun for either. And the ammo is horrendously expensive.

No, the 375 Ruger will not be "too much gun" Too much gun woudl imply that it somehow will destroy the carcass, and that is certainly not the case.

The H&H works great on moose and elk, and the Ruger will too. Good for bears, too.

Ammo expensive? What is the going rate for 375 Ruger ammo in your area?

 

[Dogleg]

"...darned good elk/moose rifle..." Too much gun for either. And the ammo is horrendously expensive.

It might be too much gun for some shooters, but you can say that about any caliber. It'll handload at the same cost as a H&H, give or take. That's not the end of the world as far as cost goes.

 

[SuperCub]

"...darned good elk/moose rifle..." Too much gun for either. And the ammo is horrendously expensive.

"Too much gun" ........

That's true, because every time you shoot a moose or elk with a 375, all you have left are bits of burnt hide and bone which are found in the middle of a 20ft smoldering crater.



.

 

[Boomer]

Boomer,

I get just a tad under 2800 FPS out of the 270gr factory ammo and a bit over 2700 with the 300s. That was in cold weather in early March. I'll clock some more now that we are in the mid 80s and see if there is much difference.

Ruger still can't figure our what "RECOIL" pads are supposed to do. I don't have much room to complain, however. The original steel butt plate is still on my 1950s vintage Mdl 70 375 H&H.

This hawkeye is a joy to carry and shoulder in the trimmed down configuration.

I load my Ultra to 2600 with 300 gr bullets, so I think the factory loads you quote prove the new round is fully capable of producing any performance required from a .375" bullet.

A M-70 with a steel butt plate? You'll never have to prove your courage in any other way.

 

[Bigbill]

Seems Right

I generally despise all things new.

Innovation is often marketing hype, crafted to sell the same product, with an inflated price, in new packaging. Witness the silly WSSM line of cartridges. For the sake of a negligible increase in efficiency, they achieve the same ballistics as classic cartridges, in a design that will not feed reliably. The WSSM line is a vulgarity that has been rejected by the shooting public. I await its demise with satisfaction.

But for the most part, the whole idea of the “belted magnum” was itself a marketing ploy. People erroneously believed that a powerful cartridge needed a belt. With few exceptions, the belts were unnecessary for the purpose of keeping headspace. Belts were put there to boost sales, not performance. I understand that one of the few exceptions is the 375 H&H which apparently needs the belt to keep headspace, as the case slopes too much to headspace on the shoulder. The benefit of the belt is that it allows for a highly sloped case that makes for utterly reliable feeding. That and the low pressure standards means the case will not stick, and it can be relied upon when huffs and horns are bearing in for the kill, and reliability is salvation.

But perhaps the 375 Ruger is not so easily dismissed as is the WSSM debacle. The Ruger cartridge is 06 size. This will mean a shorter bolt stroke than an H&H. The cartridge appears to have sensible dimensions and proportions. It looks like it should feed well. The belt is gone, but that is a good thing, as it means increased powder capacity. All these factors lead to a handier rifle, good in close cover. The only problem that might surface is the pressure levels for factory loads. It might be that pressures are excessive for this type of cartridge, which may bring pressure spikes in hot climates. But it seems that judicious handloading may allay any concerns in this regard.

To me, the 375 Ruger seems to make sense. I may buy one and play with it a bit. However, it might be wise to wait until the smoke clears before using it on dangerous game. I would hate to find out that all my speculations were in error, when facing Buffalo. It might be embarrassing.

Big

 

[Gibbs505]

"Too much gun" ........

That's true, because every time you shoot a moose or elk with a 375, all you have left are bits of burnt hide and bone which are found in the middle of a 20ft smoldering crater.



.

Damn, where do I get one of those!!

 

[gitrdun]

Deleted, 'cause I edited the message below and clicked the wrong button, or clicked too many times.....I dunno, frikin' computs.

 

[gitrdun]

"...darned good elk/moose rifle..." Too much gun for either. And the ammo is horrendously expensive.

I'd go with a "not enough gun" statements, in some cases. But too much gun? why? - ammo costs? - some folks can afford it. IMHO the cost of ammo should only enter the equation when plinking, not hunting.

 

[luv2safari]

The 375 Ruger is a hunting gun, not a plinker. I used to run the gun section of a great hunting and fishing store years ago. One thing we all got a big laugh about were the guys with a $35,000.00 truck, pulling a $50,000.00 Airstream trailer, going hunting with their Weatherby rifles...who would come into the store and want "CHEAP" ammo for their rifles.

I hand load for all my centerfires, and the 375 Ruger is no more costly than my 375 H&H. I've been shooting the 375 Ruger for several months and see no signs of anything resembling excessive pressures, either from the initial 3 boxes of factory ammo or my own loads. I have used 5% more IMR 4350 with 270 gr Speer BTSP and 300gr Nosler PT than my books show for the 375 H&H. I'm using CCI magnum primers...no cratering or difficult extraction...no enlarged primer pockets...no problems, whatsoever. I shot it for a while mid-week, when the ambient temp got to 90 out on the sandy desert and still no problems, except for a very sore right shoulder and back. I'm using a Leupold VariX III 2.5X8 in Warne QD mounts that I pirated from my 338.

I've put 150 rounds through the rifle and have not had any feeding or extraction problems. It slides them in and out slicker than "Willy's...uhh...willy", according to my new girlfriend, Monica.

As to "too much gun", there is no such thing, IMO. It is no more gun in reality than a 375 H&H, and is a bit trimmer to carry, on average. With well constructed bullets, the 375s don't destroy as much meat as the 300 mags.

As I never plan on hunting Africa when its hot, all this nonsense about "cases will stick" and the like are just wild speculation, with all due respect. The few times I got there were in late July, August, or early September, and temperatures are moderate. I couldn't foresee any problems in 120 degree temps!

If Holland and Holland were developing their first 375 today, I wager it would be a twin of the 375 Ruger. I love my old 375s, but can say the same for my new one, too. I'm pretty reactionary and don't warm up to newly hyped cartridges, but this a keeper. I'm just waiting for the 416 Ruger now.

 

[Gibbs505]

Sounds interesting, Maybe have to look at geting one. Or a 'old' 375 H&H!

 

[MTM]

The 375 Ruger is no doubt a good round. Smaller and lighter gun? My 375 is 8 1/2 with 2.5 x 8 Leupold. I think the only reason for one is if you like Ruger guns and don't want the big one.

 

[rgv]

But for the most part, the whole idea of the “belted magnum” was itself a marketing ploy. People erroneously believed that a powerful cartridge needed a belt. With few exceptions, the belts were unnecessary for the purpose of keeping headspace. Belts were put there to boost sales, not performance.

As true as this was in the 60's-70's, it is also true that the marketing ploy of the 90's was that belted cases somehow were suddenly 'problematic', and sudffered feeding problems, and you now needed a Dakota/Imperial/Lazzeroni/RUM/WSM/SAUM to fully benefit from 'modern' design and enjoy 'efficiency', whatever that is.

Bolt throw on a Rem 700, M98, Sako AV, pre-64 M70, Montana, is no longer on a 375 H&H than on a '06 lenght case in the same action. And on the Sako AV, pre-64 M70, some post-64 M70, and Montana 1999 you can get 4 rounds down in the magazine with the H&H case as well without a drop belly.

Not bashing the 375 Ruger, which of course is a good cartridge, and the RUger Alaskan/African is probably the best off-the-shelf big game rifle available right now at a reasonable price.

 

[Bigbill]

Throw

As true as this was in the 60's-70's, it is also true that the marketing ploy of the 90's was that belted cases somehow were suddenly 'problematic', and sudffered feeding problems, and you now needed a Dakota/Imperial/Lazzeroni/RUM/WSM/SAUM to fully benefit from 'modern' design and enjoy 'efficiency', whatever that is.

Bolt throw on a Rem 700, M98, Sako AV, pre-64 M70, Montana, is no longer on a 375 H&H than on a '06 lenght case in the same action. And on the Sako AV, pre-64 M70, some post-64 M70, and Montana 1999 you can get 4 rounds down in the magazine with the H&H case as well without a drop belly.

Not bashing the 375 Ruger, which of course is a good cartridge, and the RUger Alaskan/African is probably the best off-the-shelf big game rifle available right now at a reasonable price.

I only have one 375 H&H. It is a CZ550. I do not know about the other guns you listed, but the movement of the bolt on the CZ has longer travel and takes more effort than any other rifle I own. It feels somewhat like loading an artillery piece with a rammer.

I kind of like it because it makes me feel like I am dealing out death and destruction. But it is slower to work, and my fear is that I might short stroke it. While a short stroke on the CZ will not lead to a bad jam, like in a push feed, it will mean the gun goes click when it should go bang. This never happened to me, but it might if you are being charged by an animal and panic sets in.

(sorry for showing off my gun again. I cannot resist.)

Big

 

[Dogleg]

The .375 Ruger may well be a fine cartridge; in fact being a cartridge with just a bit more capacity and the same bullets it can hardly be anything else. Why wouldn't it work?
Still, when people start on the "long-bolt throw", "useless belt" efficiency arguments it bores me to tears. First off, the full length stroke is the standard for magnums. The 30-06 length are the "Short Magnums" Since I'm long on CRF rifles I really can't imagine short stroking a bolt anyway.
Second, the "Useless belt" is anything but useless on the .375 H&H cartridge.Tapered cases like the .375 are what the belt was designed for. Those that would claim that it uses up magazine capacity might want to count the shells they can put into their Rugers. If the issue is smoothness of feeding remember that the H&H is already about the smoothest feeding case in existance. How exactly will that be be improved?