38-55 projectiles to paper patch or gas check???

Noel

Noel

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Hi all,

I have finally got some brass made up for my Rogue chambered 1899 Savage lever action. I have shot a box of 235gr speer's up already. Before I go get some more of them I thought I would ask for some opinions for other slugs to try.

When I was shooting the 235's, I had been using ill fitting brass so I don't know for sure the accuracy potential with them. They have a fairly good BC though to get the most out of the little cartridge.

I also tried some 270 gr Hornady round noses, just for laughs, they penetrate like the dickens but do not expand at all, even when fired into a solid 16" wood block from 40' away. Besides the rifling marks and the lead slightly washed out of the tip, they could be loaded and fired again. :lol: I traded them off........

I would be open to traditional styles, even cast although I don't have the time to stir molten lead. The Barnes origonal 255 gr looks neat too but I don't think they are available anymore.

Thankyou for any recommendations!

Noel
 
"...40' away..." Too close. And most bullets won't expand in wood. Sierra makes a 200, 250 and 300 grain .375" bullet. Although the 300 may be too long.
 
"...40' away..." Too close. And most bullets won't expand in wood
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:shock:
I have gotten generally very good results from shooting into blocks of wood to find retention results. I realize it won't expand the same way in a hunting situation but I have fired 285 gr grand slams into wood and they look almost the same as the one I pulled out of my elk. Is speed not speed and wood not wood regardless of the range for a test medium?
I have been saving up phone books and my wife's Sears catalogs but hear they aren't reliable either. Oh well, good entertainment then I guess.
What Kind of test medium do you guy's recommend?

Thanks for all the input, I will do some digging.

Cheers,
Noel
 
Thanks Ted,
I have no experience with cast lead. What is the maximum velocity I can expect without fouling the barrel prematurely?
Should they be gas checked above a certain level?
Any load recommendations for the cast slugs would be great too.
I've been using H110 and IMR3031 so far but as mentioned before it was more shooting it just because rather than working up a tailored load.

Thanks again,
Noel
 
Just back from the Bullet Barn, it is sure tempting to give some of them a whirl.
Was the 38-55 origonally loaded with cast or were jacketed bullets already on the scene in the 1880's?

I'm curious as to rate of twist, does lead stabilize the same as a copper jacket?
The tube on my Savage is 26" so I should be able to get all the velocity there can be had with such a cartridge.

Only thing left is to track down a stock set and I'll be ready to go. :D Not bad considering I started this "little" project four years ago. :roll:
 
Noel said:
Thanks Ted,
I have no experience with cast lead. What is the maximum velocity I can expect without fouling the barrel prematurely?
Should they be gas checked above a certain level?
Any load recommendations for the cast slugs would be great too.
I've been using H110 and IMR3031 so far but as mentioned before it was more shooting it just because rather than working up a tailored load.

Thanks again,
Noel
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Noel, every barrel is different, but usually leading starts around 1600 fps without gas checks. So much depends on the condition of the barrel however, that you won't really know until you try.

If the bore is .378 as many of them are, you could paper patch 375 cast bullets and drive them as fast as the cartridge is capable without leading.

IMR 3031 is a very good cast bullet powder in my experience. I have used it in the 30-30, 303 Br, 375 H&H and 45-70 with great success. Again, you will have to tailor the loads to your particular rifle, but I don't think you could go too far wrong starting with 3031.

Ted
 
The barrel was rebored by Ron Smith and has only had 50 rds through it. The rifle has a gain twist, don't remember what it ends up being but it is nice and shiny still.
I will check the bore diameter too.

Any recommendations as far as paper patching or gas checking goes? I am sure the Bullet Barn will gas check an order but is the paper patch something I get them to do or do I start turning my old magazines into ribbons? :lol:
I think it would be easier to use the gas checks as far as starting them in the case but have no proof to back this up.
 
Noel said:
Was the 38-55 origonally loaded with cast or were jacketed bullets already on the scene in the 1880's?
Click to expand...

Ballard black powder cartridge using both paper patched and regular grooved cast bullets.

Winchester offered a mould for a 255 grain FN FB which is pretty close to Lyman's 375248
 
Thanks guy's :D It looks as though Noely is about to get retro for next year. I may get drawn for antlered Mule deer as well as Bull Moose. This may be a good test for the gun if the conditions permit.

Anyone use these cast bullets for hunting? I wonder how they hold up. :? :?:
 
..noel, i killed a bull at 125 yards with the load i mentioned above. Smashed throught the front shoulder and out the other side no second shot was needed and no bullet recovery. The bullet barn's bullets are 25 bhn i believe which is very hard. If you take one and put one on your cement floor in the garage, try smashing it with a ball peen hammer. It is very very hard.
 
If you have a decent bore, you can get very respectable velocity with 20:1 lead and tin, which is pretty with no leading using gas checked bullets. I've had velocities near 2000 fps in 30 - 30 using that alloy, and some of my rifles shoot it more acurately than the harder alloys. 38 - 55 should be more agreeable to soft alloy than 30 - 30 because of the slower rifling twist, all things being equal. You have to try it to find out. Good luck.

Ron
 
The 38-55 was introduced in 1884 by Ballard using a 255 grain bullet at 1320fps (factory load). At one time a similar factory load but at 1700 fps was sold but subsequently withdrawn as it was too much for old actions and steel.

When shot in the 1300fps range, hardness is not an issue (wheel weights more than adequate) and the bullets usually penetrate an animal.

When recommending a load for this cartridge, in the interests of safety and with due regard to the number of green horns viewing this site, the type of firearm used should be mentioned. While Noel specified he has an 1899 Savage, others may be tempted to try these loads or load to the higher velocitys in an older piece.
 
Hi Grouch! Welcome to the club and thanks for the tip. I think I will try buying some precast slugs, if it goes really well then I may try doing some of my own.
Should the 25 BHN ones not shoot well I shall try some softer ones.

Good point Rich. The rifle was made in 1907 so she has been around for awhile. I would consider the action stronger than a winchester 94 but have also heard otherwise with any pre 1920 actions(?) I will leave that observation to a more experienced person should they happen to be reading this thread.

In regards to seating the bullets, does the mouth of the case need to be belled to start the bullet? My dies did not come wiht such a piecs, gues I could make one on the lathe. :?
 
Noel said:
In regards to seating the bullets, does the mouth of the case need to be belled to start the bullet? My dies did not come wiht such a piecs, gues I could make one on the lathe. :?
Click to expand...

Cases should be belled to avoid shaving the cast bullets and damaging cases.

You can use needle nose pliers for this. Twist the case over a closed set of needle nose pliers until you have it belled enough so the bullet base enters the case slightly. Make a reference point with a black marker for continuity.
 
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