.38 Centerfire

FirstHussar

FirstHussar

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Hey all

Has anyone heard of this cartridge? I have inherited a Whitney (later absorbed into Remington) rolling block rifle chambered in ".38 C.F." I know there is a WCF, but I have never heard of the above. Do any of you Nutz have any knowledge in this area? Is this Ammo still available?

Thanks
 
I shoot a lot of obsolete calibers; while the caliber stamped on the barrel is instructive, far more useful is to take a chamber cast. I currently use cerrosafe but formerly used parafin wax which is good enough for most purposes to give base and neck diameter and shell length. I compare these dimensions with the choices in Cartridges of the World and for making the shells that I use, I go through the dimension specs for currently manufactured cases to see what can be used or modified to match the dimensions from the chamber cast.
I guess the bottom line is get a copy of C of the W plus a dial caliber and go from there.

cheers Doug
 
In CARTRIDGES OF THE WORLD there is a cartridge listed as " .38 Long, Centerfire" used in single shot rifles in about 1875 and was obsolete by 1900 . Try a .38 long Colt empty case or a .38 S&W Special empty case, if it fits and the gun is in good shape , you can use the brass that fits with the standard load of 20 to 25 grains of black powder and a 140 to 150gr bullet, .357 diameter bullets will probably work but may not be accurate only trying will tell.. Do not use .38 special factory loads even if they fit, they are way to powerful for your rifle. Probably not a good idea to even use smokeless powder in such an old gun, steels were not as good 150 years ago.
 
Probably 38 Long Colt. WRA 1891 catalogue says of the 38 long "adapted to Colt revolvers and rifles of this calibre".
 
I think it is stupid to use the poke in and try method of establishing caliber. Bore dimensions often differ from the published dimensions and it also gives you a very poor estimate of chamber dimensions and particularly length. Wax chamber casts are very easy and accurate within .001" or so.
Just my thoughts anyhow

cheers mooncoon
 
While you are checking out the chamber dimensions maybe slug the bore as well before using .355 / .357 dia. cast bullets. Who knows what the necessary diameter and bullet weight are going to come out at. Was the .38 Long Colt an internally lubed / greased heeled bullet?
 
dingus said:
Mooncoons right make a wax cast so your sure what you got before ya start shooting the thing. ;)
Click to expand...

Absolutely. It is a very old rifle (I'm figuring 100+ years) so I'm definitely going to make a cast, and then take it to a gunsmith. I'm beginning to doubt that the ammo is available anymore. But, doesn't hurt to try :redface: .

Thanks for your advice everyone.
 
I think you are approaching this from a very different perspective than I would. You appear to be looking for factory loaded shells that you can stick in the gun and shoot it. That is probably a bad idea because if they even exist, they may be loaded to much higher pressures than the gun was made for.
My approach is from the other direction; what does the chamber and bore tell me about the gun and how do I create that combination. Am I really lucky and can buy factory ammo as empty shells or fired shells and then load them to a level which is safe for your gun.

cheers mooncoon
 
Hello Mooncoon
I read with interest your comment of making a was chamber cast. How does that work? It sounds interesting.
little pete
 
I push a small wad of paper towel or cleaning patch down the barrel from the breach, and plug the barrel about 1 inch ahead of the chamber. I usually put a piece of cotton string into the hole then poured melted paraffin wax in and wait for it to cool and harden. Knock it out with a ram rod and measure.
the string is to keep the pieces together if the cast breaks. I have cerrosafe and use that now but used to use wax.

cheers mooncoon
 
Not to hijack the thread, but I have a friend with a Colt New Army in .38 Long Colt. While the New Marine was in .38 Spl. the New Army and New Navy were in .38 Long Colt. I told him not to try to fire .38 Spl. in it, he says he has a few of his grandfather's cartridges for it, but I told him not to fire them either until it was verified what they were. How do the cartridge dimensions compare with .38Spl. My old Speer loading manual says that the .38 Long Colt was loaded with 18Gr. of black powder behind a .130 grain bullet and was found to be inadequate during the Philipine campaign in 1889.The .38 special was developed to remedy this and was originally loaded with 21Gr. black powder behind a 158Gr. bullet.
 
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