.38 Long Colt on a Dillon 650 with .38/.357 Dillon Dies

[4n2t0]

I posted this little experiment on the Brian Enos forum and I thought I would also share it here just in case anyone was interested.

Dillon .38/.357 dies, on a Dillon 650, will fully seat and crimp .38 Long Colt. I trimmed .38 Special brass to 1.03 and loaded a dummy round using a 158gr SWC seated and crimped to the groove. The seating die still had quite a few turns left available to it, but the crimp die is right at its limit (ring on top and without any modification). I probably couldn't get a "strong crimp" but I don't need or want one. The crimp measured at .377 and that's plenty strong enough for me. I'm basically using the roll crimp die to just de-flare the case mouth. I won't be able to load some real rounds until my press gets fixed (I just received some alignment tools from Dillon today). As to why? For me, it will hopefully provide easier ejection, powder conservation, and I can repurpose .38 Special cases which crack at the case mouth.

Left: .38 Long Colt, Right: .38 Special

Left: Crimp die setting, Right: Seating die setting

 

[Alex McKr]

4n2tO: Thanks for sharing. I do the same as you....re-purpose mildly neck cracked .38 Special brass into .38 Long Colt. Sometimes into Short Colt, depending on depth of crack.

In the past, I didn't have a lot of luck getting a good crimp using standard 38/357 dies...so eventually broke down and bought a set of Lee Short/Long Colt dies. Now, I just swap out the tool head on my Dillon 550 and run them through.

The Colt cartridges are a lot of fun to shoot. Very low recoil. I generally load mine with either Clays or Trail Boss powder and 125-grain bullets.

 

[4n2t0]

I hear you on the dies but I wanted to make due, at least for now, as I currently run 3 tool heads (9mm, .38 Special, .357 Magnum). Having at least 2K of .38 Special already loaded will allow me to keep the Long Colt configuration for a while. I'm currently loading everything with 231. I think a slightly reduced .38 Special load should do the trick. How much of a charge reduction do you use Alex?

 

[Alex McKr]

4n2tO: Here are some of the smokeless powder loads I've tested so far:

Powder:
Clays: Min: 2 gr. Max: 2.5
231/HP38 Min: 2.6 gr. Max: 3.2
Titegroup Min: 2.3 gr. Max: 2.7 gr.
Trail Boss: Min: 2.0 gr. Max: 2.4

Test loads(All powders), were evaluated at minimum, mid-range(where feasible) and maximum powder charge. In all cases a 125 grain cast, LRNFP bullet was used. Brass: Mixed...Long Colt(Starline) and assorted .38 Special brass, trimmed to 1.030"-1.031" Primer: Winchester SP.
Test firearms: Ruger New Vaquero. 5 1/2" and 4 5/8" barrels

Note: None of the loads have been chrony tested, to date. I will though, when time allows.

Accuracy testing was performed from a rest, at 15 yards. Also shot freehand.. from low rest and from holster. Both the Clays and Trail Boss loads have been further evaluated in a real-world, competitive shooting setting(Cowboy Action). Both worked as expected. Very good, as it turns out. Only problem encountered was keeping Colt brass from getting mixed in with .38 Special.

Results with all powders were positive. Of all powders tried, Clays (2 grains), and Trail Boss (2 grains), were the clear winners, when it came to accuracy and recoil reduction. With the minimum charge of Clays being the overall best in recoil reduction. Also the cleanest burning(low fouling) of all powders tested.

HP38/231 could likely be reduced a few tenths more below minimum. I am thinking about trying 2.0-2.3 grain loads, to see how they perform. I did stop testing this powder for now though, as the results with Clays and Trail Boss were far better, overall.

HP38/231 delivered good accuracy but, even at the minimum charge, there was more recoil pulse/ muzzle rise between shots, than I wanted from the Colt cartridge. My ultimate goal being minimal muzzle rise and quick recovery between shots. I will continue testing with this powder though, as I like it in .38 Special.

As for Trail Boss, I usually find this powder delivers best performance at around 80% load density. In this case however, since only a couple of tenths separated min/max....Plus...I could not detect any noticeable difference between min/max charge, performance wise, I stuck with the minimum charge. It bears mentioning that, aside from being slightly dirtier burning than Clays, recoil pulse was about the same. Also accuracy.

I like Titegroup in some calibers. It delivered good accuracy in the Long Colt cartridge, too. And was reasonably clean burning. But, I found the recoil pulse a bit too sharp for my liking. Still, if this powder is available, it will work well.

Hope this answers some of your questions.

Al

 

[4n2t0]

Wow, thank you for the detailed response Alex, I really appreciate it. I've loaded every powder under the sun, but after all these years I've finally realized that there isn't much difference when it comes to pistol loads (how people load powders like Vihtavuori is beyond me). Now I look for versatile powders. I've loaded a bunch of Titegroup, it's a great powder, but I was able to secure 16 lbs of 231/HP-38 for a better price than Titegroup (signs the world is topsy turvy upside down, lol). 231/HP-38 is just as versatile as Titegroup, so I'll be loading it for the foreseeable future. I'll post chrono data for 231/HP-38 in .38 Long Colt sometime within the next few weeks.

 

[Alex McKr]

4n2tO: I am also a big fan of 231/HP-38. Use it in a variety of pistol-caliber cartridges, too. One of my all-time favourites and highly versatile. Along with Unique/Universal. Titegroup, too.

You may find HP38/231 a good powder for the Colt cartridge. And it is. My only reason for discounting it as a good overall choice, was in recoil reduction. As I was looking for the least possible recoil pulse. Otherwise, I would use it with confidence.

I agree....the world is becoming stranger by the day.

ps: If you can lay your hands on either Unique or Universal, this should be a good additional powder choice, for 150-158 grain bullets. Have not done any testing with this combination yet, but worthy of future experimentation.

 

[Auggie Doggie]

Side note: sometimes if you run out of threads on the die for the lock ring, there's sometimes enough room on the bottom side of the toolhead to tighten the nut there.

Auggie D.

 

[Alex McKr]

Auggie Doggie: You are right. Most other reloading presses can be set up this way, too. I occasionally do the same thing myself, depending on the circumstance and set up. So like to keep a few spare lock rings on hand, for such occasions. A useful tip and helpful addition to a reloader's bag of tricks. Thanks for sharing.

Al