.38 Special / .357 Magnum Information Request

2Bad4u

2Bad4u

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I'm looking at getting myself my first revolver, most likely the S&W 686. However I have absolutely no experience with revolvers, or either the .38 Special or .357 Magnum cartridges.

I'm into reloading and would like some guidance with respect to bullet weights and powders for both of these cartridges. I already use W231 for my 9mm and 45 ACP, so I suspect that W231 should do just fine for the .38 Special. I also suspect that there are better powders out there for the .357.

BTW, I will just be shooting paper targets from 7 to 20 yards.

Also, the respect to the primers for the .357 Magnum. The loading manuals call for small pistol magnum primers but I've read some posts that say that the non-magnum small pistol primers work just fine. I would like to use the non-magnum primers because it would mean one less primer type to stock (hoard :D).

Thanks in advance to all replies.
 
RE using standard small pistol primers in 357..the answer is yes. If your shooting cowboy or standard loads. Laser cast has numerous loads in their cast hand book. Small primers are used in all but magnum loads.

In fact one load requires small rifle when shooting a lever action using IMR 4227

Hodgdon Powder has a free web loading site. For all IMR WINCHESTER AND HODGDON POWDER. 231 IS A GOOD POWDER...Take a look at Trailboss and Titegroup.
 
For pleasant target shooting at those distances I would stay away from the booming .357 loads with H110, and concentrate more on the .38.
I use VV N340 in the .38 with many different bullets, and also Hodgdon Clays. They both have a different "feel" out of my 686. You'll definitely find one you like more than another, but groups and a chronograph will help you figure out which one is best. If I have time on the weekend I'll dig up some numbers on the loads I've shot and post them.
 
I just checked the Hodgdon site and they provide .38 Special loads in all bullet weights up to 170 grs with W-231. These should be accurate and pleasant to shoot with both a mild report and low recoil, particularly in a heavy gun. My go to powder for light loads is Unique, and 231 will burn cleaner. Unique leaves a gummy residue on both the brass and the gun. But I'll stick with it because it does what I want and is useful for small game loads and cast bullet loads in rifle cartridges.

Historically Hercules 2400 was the go to powder for magnum handguns regardless of caliber. Today Hercules has been succeeded by Alliant, but while 2400 is still a good choice of powder, when you want power out of your .357, H-110/Win -296 is the right answer. My .357 load is a 190 gr SWC at 1100 fps pushed by H-110. Be prepared for recoil and noise. Is a .357 as demanding to shoot as a hot loaded .44 magnum? No, but neither is a .357 loaded to 40,000 psi as pleasant or as easy to shoot as a mild .38 Special loaded to 16,000 psi.
 
H110/W296 for the full-power loads, with magnum primers here! Small rifle, too, if I don't happen to have magnums on hand. Lil-gun has a good reputation for full-poer loads, but I find that in practice, it performs much like H-110 - pressures seem to be a lot higher than what's listed on Hodgdon's ite, and I get ticky extraction right up at max - something I DON'T get with 110. Plus, lil-gun seems to heat up the barrel much faster - don't ask me why, but it just does. Also, there's reports on the Internets that it's hard on guns; burning up forcing cones and the like. If I had to guess, I'd say that's probably more due to people trying to push the limits with a new powder, and either exceeding max, or shooting extended strings of max loads, when the gun is scorching hot thus accelerating wear

Clays is OK for cowboy loads, but I don't like the way it meters. I tend to get squibs - whether the powder is bridging in the dispenser, or the tiny charges are just more difficult to ignite, I can't say. Perhaps magnum primers would be a good choice when you're using small volumes (3grs) of power in that large case.

I haven't used trail boss too extensively in this cartridge. It should meter better than clays, just because of the greater volumes used. Also because of the large volume, I think it should ignite better too.

Titegroup works well, especially with 125's, right up through +p loads. I'm just playing with Longshot now, it looks promising as a +p/light-357 powder, as does HS-6. None of these powders are particularly suited for light cowboy lead loads, though - titegroup is really dirty at low pressures, and longshot/HS-6 are just too slow burning to get good results.

I've recently abandoned lead bullets, they're just too messy. Even when they're not leading the bore, the lube produces a lot of soot and carbon. Clays plus plated bullets leaves everything nice and shiny; you can hardly tell that the brass has been fired. Titegroup, plus medium-to-max loads with plated bullets is almost as clean.
 
my current loads are as follows,

357mag - wolf hard cast 158 gr. (RNFP or SWC) with 15 grains of W296. provides a pretty good bang in my 586. i tried 16 grains and felt no difference. i would like to try h110.

for 38 special i use currently HBWC's 148 gr. with 2.2 to 2.4 gr of bullseye. very light and accurate load.

EDIT: standard primers for both. i should try magnum primers for the 357 one time.
 
Spawn-Inc said:
my current loads are as follows,

357mag - wolf hard cast 158 gr. (RNFP or SWC) with 15 grains of W296. provides a pretty good bang in my 586. i tried 16 grains and felt no difference. i would like to try h110.

for 38 special i use currently HBWC's 148 gr. with 2.2 to 2.4 gr of bullseye. very light and accurate load.

EDIT: standard primers for both. i should try magnum primers for the 357 one time.
Click to expand...

296 and 110 are exactly the same powders
 
jeff270 said:
I'll be trying out lil'gun in my new 357,high velcity low pressure.
Elmer Kieth used std primers for the 44 mag .
Click to expand...

Magnum primers didn't get invented until after Elmer Keith designed the 44 mag, and not until long after the 357 magnum was designed.
Strange, now some on CGN think that magnum primers are required for each of 357 or 44 mag, with the very powder they were designed with!
 
Conversely, when Elmer worked up heavy loads for the .44 Special and the .44 Magnum, from the '30s to the '50s, ball powders weren't as prevalent as they became from the '70s onward. Flake powders like Unique and Blue Dot, the small disks that make up 2400, and even fine extruded powder like 4227 ignited easier than high density ball powders when used in hot loads, so didn't require as hot a primer. I frequently used small rifle primers when I loaded .357 ammo, which amounted to the same thing, as using magnums. The practice has been frowned on by some, but I don't recall it ever being a problem for me.
 
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HOWDY; WIN 231 is just fine for your purpose and as good as any. Standard primer are good.
I have loaded many hot loads with win 231 as well ,uesing mostly lead bullets , 140 to 158grain. Target loads with win 231 are great.
Check the Hogden web site for loads. HP 38 and win 231 are now the same powder , hp 38 is usually a buck or so cheaper per pound.
 
I've handloaded very little for handgun, but perhaps accidentally came across something rather nice for my 686. It would eventually become an expensive paper punching load but if the stigma of using a handgun to defend oneself, was justly trashed, the 357 load would be good for home defense.
Bullet-Hornady XTP 140 gr, HP.
Powder-HP38, 6.5 gr
Primer-CCI small pistol. Yeah, The Hodgson's manual called for a magnum primer, but I didn't have and I wasn't sure if it called for magnum; just don't be unsure if it is the other way around. The load isn't by any means a full load, partly because the primer wasn't magnum and mostly because the powder charge was light: Hodgdon ballistics indicated velocity near 1200-1300fps but I don't have a chrono to verify in my 4.2" barrel. Recoil was between 38spec +p, and 357mag factory loads(PMC 158gr FP, Rem 115 FP, S&B FP - all jacketed)

Being a jacketed bullet, cleaning time is significantly less than that when using cast lead bullets... Shot lots of 38 target loads... gun is black as soot, and has gain weight from lead deposited around cylinder gap but twice as cheap to shoot than factory 357 loads.
I like choosing powders that produce a high velocity with as little chamber pressure as possible so to minimize wear that way.
 
The load i used for 357 mag. is H110 with 160 gr Hornadys. Was worked up for silhouette shooting, never got to use it much though. My 38 plinking load was usually unique or bullseye with cast 148 swc.
 
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