.38sp loads with HP-38

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Dave G27

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In the past I always used either Unique or Bullseye and the only bullet I ever used was a 148gr WC or a Lee 158gr SWC. NO issues ever. I quit shooting quite some time ago and recently took it up again.

Now when I started loading again recently I chose not to cast and powder is scarce. I have Hornady Frontier 158gr lead RN and Campro 158gr TC projectiles and the only powder I was able to buy is HP-38 which I have never used before.

I loaded both using 4.0 gr of the HP-38. Today when I went to the range I shot about 60 of the LRN without issue and then shifted to the copper plated bullet. The latter was very inconsistent in flash and recoil despite being the same load and I had to quit when one stuck in the barrel.

Now I loaded all those cases in a single session and the powder measure was consistent all the way through. The only difference was the bullet and comparing the two I see that the LRN is about 1/8” farther into the case as seated.

I have about 20 of the loads left and I’ll take them apart to measure the powder for consistent volumes. 4.0 gr is not a full case by any means but I was careful. I’ve never hit such an issue before… any thoughts or input?

(edit for additional info) I have pulled all remaining .38's apart and weighed each powder charge. All measured 4.0gr except 2 which weighed 3.9gr.recovered powder. I also measured a few of the bullets and they are exactly as spec'd by Campro. So between the lead bullets and the plated bullets the only difference other than the bullets themselves is the depth they are seated to. Not really anything I can think of other than powder position and case volume, but in a small case like the .38sp I wouldn't have expected that to be an issue.
 
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Sounds to me like you have a light powder charge. Hodgdon data for a jacketed bullet is 3.8 to 4.3, so you should be good, but something is wrong, and I would check the powder load first, as you state the lead bullets worked fine.
Another thing to check would be excessive crimp, unlikely to be that, but worth a look.
 
Both should be loaded the same as a lead bullet. Your LRN worked because with less room in the case you were able to produce enough pressure for proper deflagration. Increase your charge for the campro, use the shortest OAL you can and/or use a magnum primer. Lots of crimp would help if anything so that is unlikely.
 
I have been using 4.1gr of HP38 with the 158gr tc from campro. I crimp on the heavier side in the groove with good result.
 
I run 3.2gr HP38 with the Campro 147gr HBWC plated bullet. I think I used 3.0gr with a 148gr HBWC lead bullet. In 38spl cases, in my PPC revolver.
4.0gr HP38 sounds like a ton of powder, way more than should be necessary to get the bullet out of the barrel.
 
adamg said:
I run 3.2gr HP38 with the Campro 147gr HBWC plated bullet. I think I used 3.0gr with a 148gr HBWC lead bullet. In 38spl cases, in my PPC revolver.
4.0gr HP38 sounds like a ton of powder, way more than should be necessary to get the bullet out of the barrel.
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Not if it doesn't ignite. Your HBWC take up a ton of space allowing pressure to build. This is all easy to see with a loading program if it doesn't make sense otherwise.
 
I have shot thousands of rounds of W231 and a 133 gr cast SWC at 3.1 and 3.4 for softball loads and never a problem. HP38 and W231 are said to be the same powder. I always used CCI small pistol primers with a light crimp and was surprised to see your issues at 4.0 gr.

You say you have started loading again after a long pause, are you using some of your old stock of primers?
 
HP38 and W231 are the same powder. I use lots of the 231. It is considered a ball powder. I think you are just light in the loads. Should use a magnum primer with ball powders. I don't but will probably help.

I use 3.7gr with lead WC. Which is very light but accurate.
 
His primers worked fine for the LRN... I don't have all his load data but using a standard primer with recommended OAL his load is only producing 13,800psi. Depending on barrel length that could cause the stuck bullet. 3.9 is just barely over 13,000.

A lead bullet will have much less trouble exiting. I wouldn't think the plated would either but since the charges were verified it's only logical I guess. A little more powder, stronger crimp, magnum primer or shorter OAL will all probably solve the problem.
 
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Thanks for the help. Yes everything is new. I spent the evening trying to figure it out as this really shouldn't be happening. I've come to think this is down to powder position and lack of case fill. The powder would tend to stay forward when I load and pause between shots. HP-38 is a fairly dense powder and takes up less space than either of the two powders I had used in the past. I hadn't looked at Lee's powder density tables for more than 25 years until last evening. The copper plated bullet also leaves more room in the case. I found a fair amount of discussion online suggesting that HP-38 is position sensitive, perhaps this experience lends to that theory.
B* suggested more crimp, which might help. I can't see any reason not to try seating the bullet deeper and perhaps crimping on the shoulder instead of the cannelure. It will raise pressure, but in this case that's a good thing. I'll try both of those things and buy a box of factory made as well to see how much crimp they use. As a side note, I can't say I'm impressed with the seat and crimp die from Lee, so perhaps I'm using it wrong, my old dies were RCBS. I have no issue with Lee rifle dies.
Lots of things to try and I genuinely appreciate all the input.
 
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It's not powder position. You just have a light load. You mention one was 3.9 gr. That's just over a minimum load. Assuming your reloading steps are all done correctly, you need more powder. That's it. I would try 4.3
 
A couple other things to check is case flash hole. All clear?
Any crud in the case, water, lube etc?
You didn't mention type of gun, or barrel length. If the barrel is badly leaded, that could cause issues.
 
Ganderite said:
With 158gr lead or plated bullet, I find 4.5 a nice plinker and 5.0 a good full power load.
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Thanks for the input. I've chosen to stop using that powder/bullet combination for now and gone back to the LRN Hornady bullet, which continues to work well. I'll make some up at some point with more powder, but I'd like to borrow a chrono to document results a bit better. It's the inconsistency that surprises me and the measure of cylinder gap flash and felt recoil aren't good data points. I'd be curious if you can point me to a load manual that doesn't put your load well into the +P territory. I have a few, but they tend not to address +P well, and I have always tended to load light. I have ordered 148gr HBWC and will use those. The heavier plated TC will run through other revolvers without issue in .357 cases.
 
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That's all I used in 9mm, .40, .38, 45, and you always need a bit less powder for lead than you do for plated or jacketed. With the lube, they are slicker, and run faster on the same powder.
 
Dave G27 said:
Thanks for the input. I've chosen to stop using that powder/bullet combination for now and gone back to the LRN Hornady bullet, which continues to work well. I'll make some up at some point with more powder, but I'd like to borrow a chrono to document results a bit better. It's the inconsistency that surprises me and the measure of cylinder gap flash and felt recoil aren't good data points. I'd be curious if you can point me to a load manual that doesn't put your load well into the +P territory. I have a few, but they tend not to address +P well, and I have always tended to load light. I have ordered 148gr HBWC and will use those. The heavier plated TC will run through other revolvers without issue in .357 cases.
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It is inconssitant at the mild load because that powder needs more pressure to work well. Try 4.5 and note how much better it is.
 
If I had to guess at where your inconsistencies were coming from, I would look first at the crimp that is being applied. Perhaps apply a bit more crimp to a brass bullet than a cast lead bullet if your dies are set for cast lead bullets.
Incidentally, the crimp you use can have effect on how much powder residue you're seeing in your barrel. If you're noticing more gunk, then this can certainly be a indication of what I've mentioned above.
Much like you, 4gr. or so of HP38 makes a great 38sp. target load for me with a 158gr lead SWC bullet.

Anyhow, just a thought and something that I've noticed with calibers like the 38sp were I used to shoot lead but am trying jacketed rounds more and more. Try it out and see what you find.
 
B said:
His primers worked fine for the LRN... I don't have all his load data but using a standard primer with recommended OAL his load is only producing 13,800psi. Depending on barrel length that could cause the stuck bullet. 3.9 is just barely over 13,000.

A lead bullet will have much less trouble exiting. I wouldn't think the plated would either but since the charges were verified it's only logical I guess. A little more powder, stronger crimp, magnum primer or shorter OAL will all probably solve the problem.
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Pre-lubed lead are way easier to push, which is why most data shows lighter loads for them than jacketed or plated bullets for the same velocities. In real life, that is my experience also.
 
I certainly had a good experience with that load and the LRN bullet, but not with the plated conical. I now have 148gr HBWC which should be fine as well. I'll reserve the 158TC for when I actually want a heavier load or I'm able to source a powder with a better case fill. Campro lists the load for this bullet with HP-38 at 3.8 to 4.3gr and my other load data agrees so this middle of the road load should work. I'll get back to looking at it again someday.
 
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