How many multigun events have you put on? Cause the the last two guys you quoted just now have put on a bunch so I’d just like to get an idea of your perspective. And they are not saying they don’t want to do it...they are not even saying you shouldn’t have your own ideas of how matches should be run...all they are saying is that if you want matches run your way then step up and do it! I could absolutely guarantee that if you decided to put on a 2 gun match, neither of those guys would come up to you and criticize or suggest you make the next one a 3gun. Why do you suppose that is?
Your notion that the “idea” was perverted along the way and that it is a game of speed tells me you have a very narrow idea of what 3 gun looks like. Same thing with FrankieT saying the shotgun was irrelevant. There are lots of people doing practical stuff with practical equipment. There are lots of events where the shotgun is very relevant. You guys may need to look a little further than your own backyard or YouTube 3GN videos.
And this last gem I just couldn’t let slip by....Shotguns are specialist firearms???? Did you really mean to type that? Shotguns are about as generalist as firearms go!
I never said I want matches run "my way". I'm just offering up suggestions and here we have people getting all butt hurt and being defensive. I haven't put on any matches, I have designed stages and setup plenty of matches. Not sure why people are so upset over ideas and criticisms.
The shotgun comment was the wrong word. Shotguns are specialized not specialist firearms. Greentips explained it well. A shotgun excels at shooting birds and breaching doors. It's inferior at distance, it has a very low capacity, very high recoil, poor sights and accuracy and generally larger than a rifle.
There are a whole lot of people in this thread that have never put on a match of any sort let alone one involving 2 or *gasp* 3 guns. Here is a little point for them to consider:
For every person that suggests a 2 gun match would be better than 3 because they don’t really like shotguns there will be a person who suggests a 4 gun event would be more fun than 3 because they really like long range stuff. For every person that suggests there was a little too much shotgun emphasis on a stage there will be another who says they would have preferred a bit more shotgun work.
What is a Match director to do? We hear it from both ends so eventually we integrate the suggestions and just put on the kind of matches that we think most shooters would like to shoot. And to those that want something different we politely suggest that they put on the kind of matches they want to shoot.
I'm not sure what's so hard about offering a seperate 2 gun division at 3 gun matches? The only difference is that a 2 gun competitor will not be shooting the shotgun targets. There is zero additional setup, zero additional cost, zero scheduling conflict, and zero impact on those who wish to shoot 3 gun. 2 gun matches/divison by default would encourage more people to compete as it is literally 1/3 the gear and cost(on the average).
I think the right thing to do is to survey members and see what people like. It's not like we have to guess what people want and have a debate. When we do these surveys, we find that the overwhelming majority of our competitors like shooting 3 gun as a sport. There are others that prefer the tac side of it and want something closer to real life scenarios.
I think if you were into the more tactical side of things, 2 gun makes more sense and I think you need a more real-life oriented ruleset than what most popular 3 gun rulesets offer. There's probably room for someone to host tactical 2 gun matches, CQB, or more run and gun events: just a matter of getting someone to put some on and see if they can build a core of shooters around it. There's no reason why we can't have both "gamer" style matches and Tactical style matches.
Like I said above, you don't need to exclude anyone, simply offer a 2 gun division, which is not about "tactical", it's about being practical. No one carries 3 guns with them anywhere, especially two long guns such as a rifle and a shotgun. A long gun and a sidearm is very common. The long gun is a rifle.
I agree about slings having no place in gun games.
They aren't necessary but what's the hatred for them? Slings are very useful, especially if you do anything outside competing.
This is awesome...The most utilitarian firearm ever invented is now a specialized firearm that never misses. And that’s why you don’t want to shoot it? This thread delivers...
My mistake, specialized, not specialist. Green tips explains it well.
so....exactly how many 3 gun matches have you shot?
Somewhere near 50 plus. Why would it matter how many matches someone has shot? Does match experience make any difference when discussing different disciplines??
I recognize 3 Gun obviously requires more equipment and expense and the shotgun component is what likely scares most away and hence it’s not for everyone. But if we’re polling, I’ve been firmly in the 3 Gun camp since shooting my first match. Could care less about the naysayers here that don’t think it’s ‘tactical’ enough for them as that’s not the reason I play 3G. I play because it’s a heck of a lot of fun and personally think its a much better test of a competitors overall shooting abilities than any individual or dual shooting event.
Addressing the ‘it’s not ‘tactical’ enough for me’ crowd, have to say each 3G match I’ve shot the MD’s have all had slightly different rules sets and some, like my home club, use a version of IDPA rules which requires competitors to shoot from cover, only discard empty mags or retain mags with rounds left, etc. So as a MD if you want to make 3G more tactical, it’s doable.
Personally, if there were only 3 gun and no ‘tactical’ 2 gun matches to my preference in my area, you wouldn’t catch me sitting at home sulking. I’d get out and shoot whatever matches were on offer until I could put on the matches of my choice at my home club. That’s how it’s done.
Wow, the hostility from so many here. Who said anything about boycotting or sulking? I shoot 3 gun and have no issues. I would just like to see a more PRACTICAL(not tactical) 2 gun style event or division to both encourage new shooters and get back to the roots of multi gun action shooting.
In all honesty, different people have different expectations. I like a game as much as any other guy, but with time constraints, I don’t have the time to do realistic type shooting AND 3-gun games. A good two gun match can be realistic and a fun “game”. If I had more time, I would do it all. But training is a priority and “games” are not as high on my list. If I can combine both, great. 2-gun is more effective at that for me.
As for how the match was scored, it is all time based with misses costing SEVERE penalties. Most shotgun stages are 25 yards or less. Maybe I shoot with autistiically good shooters (mostly Operators for the record), but whether it is target loads, 00, or slugs, misses are rare. A lot of the courses of fire require a lot of physical exertion, and that seems to be more of a factor of misses.
I would like to see more 2-gun ( pistol and rifle ) because realistically it is takes a lot to master everything. Shotgun has a different manual of arms and it is a whole different ball game from the mag fed AR and pistol. If I have a lot of time and a lot of money, I will for sure do all 3. In reality, by time and money constraint I can only do so much, so I would rather to be better at 2 than being mediocre with 3.
Also, theoretically sHotguns are for shooting birds from afar and doors up close, so shooting a shotgun at stationary steel plates and reloading it very fast are not high on my personal investment list. It is surely fun but again there are only so much money and time. I would rather spend time on skeet and trap with shotguns because these are actually practical skills with shotguns.
Thanks for explaining it greentips.
It can be looked at both ways....
U can buy a decent shotgun for $1000 bucks plus a few hundred for the gear.... and have something you can take anywhere, shoot 3 gun, skeet, hunt birds, hunt deer, use as bear protection and generally plink with.
OR
U can buy a decent handgun for $1000 bucks plus a few hundred for the gear.... AND you have to have a restricted License, a range membership, registered with the government, authorization to transport it, can only shoot it at a range and you have to carry paper work with you at all times while using it......... ALL so you can shoot many different competitions and just general plinking.
Considering THAT, a better argument could be made to remove handguns from shooting competitions rather then shotguns.
No. The origins of 3 gun are from 2 gun and the handgun like the rifle are the staples. Although I see no reason why a person couldn't shoot just one gun, or shoot pistol and shotgun only. A multi gun event could cater to all variations without any additional effort. The competitors simply compete in their division and only shoot the targets they have guns for. That could be 1 gun, 2 guns, or 3 guns.
I've yet to run into some who says "we should have a 2 gun match" who didn't actually mean "you should do all the work so I can shoot a 2 gun match."
I'll say this again. No one forced you to design, setup, or direct the match. If you can't take suggestions and criticism I don't know how to help you.
I'd just like to know where all these two gun matches are happening.... As well, where are all these three gun matches that shooters are boycotting because of the shotgun?
No one is boycotting anything. I personally know a lot of folks who don't shoot 3 gun because they don't have the third gun, a shotgun. No boycott, no whining just not interested in buying a gun and gear they don't need.
A complicated shotgun
But yet it still manages to be:
-The first gun a stereotypical hill billy adds to their collection.
-The go to choice for inexperienced Hollywood teens defending themselves from a knife wielding creep
-Mad Maxes side arm
-What the British used to build an empire in the 18th century
-Something utubers make in a 10 minute video using only plumbing supply's and some JB weld
and something TAOFLEDERMAUS can fire enough random ass things out of, to earn himself 1.1 million subscribers on utube lol
YUP... shotguns are real state of the art pieces of hardware
Shotgun manipulations and handling is what makes or breaks a shooters day. slow or fumbled loading equates to a poor time. They are old school and require much more practice and skill to be competent with. I don't know what your point is with your bullet points?
Stereotypes are not a great way to judge anything
Who cares what anti gun hollywood does
Mad Max is fake, see above
Yes, before rifled barrels and single projectile firearms the blunderbuss/shotgun was all there was. The one eyed man is king in the land of the blind.
Who cares what is posted on youtube
