Hi "people" I bought some bertrams brass and a lyman 240gr mould for my 40-82 and now I need some load data,I tried 30gr H4198 with 240gr cast bullet (no fillers) and when I pulled the trigger it went THHHHHHHH and the bullet rolled in the grass five feet in front of the gun! can you help?...../do I use fillers or a different powder,I need help. Thanks Matt P.S. Cartridges of the world data was 28gr 4198 with 260gr bullet I don't know if the powder is IMR or Hodgdons or if the bullet is cast or jacketed?
40-82 WCF load data
- Thread starter matt bradley
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- Winnipeg,Man.
Lucky you are to have found a 1886 in that caliber. I have a few '94s and '92s in various calibers and use IMR 3031 exclusively. the closest I have to your caliber is 38-55 which is loaded 24.5 gr 3031 behind a 245 gr. cast bullet. Out to 100 yards, it hits good but drops off quick after that. You will have to develop a recipe which your gun likes.
What is your bore like? if it is too leaded or smooth, the bullet could be too small in diameter. Try slugging your barrel to see how much it is worn.
What is your bore like? if it is too leaded or smooth, the bullet could be too small in diameter. Try slugging your barrel to see how much it is worn.
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When I had one of the H & R Trapdoor 45-70 replica carbines, I shot it lots with 28gr. IMR 4198 and a 405gr. cast bullet.
I found it to be a good shooting, mild load, but it would leave traces of un/partially burnt powder in the bore.
I would suggest you try a tighter crimp, or check your powder/primers for contamination.
Regards, DaveF.
I found it to be a good shooting, mild load, but it would leave traces of un/partially burnt powder in the bore.
I would suggest you try a tighter crimp, or check your powder/primers for contamination.
Regards, DaveF.
I used to own a 40-82 and liked the gun. I think your biggest problem is that you need to put a small lump of drier lint or similar on top of the powder to keep it against the primer. I used to tap it down lightly with the end of a pencil. My gun had a oversize bore and I used .41 magnum pistol slugs in the gun with 32 gr of IMR 3031 and a 210 gr bullet. I would suggest starting 3 or 4 grains low and go up in jumps of 1 gr checking for signs of excessive pressure; primers extruding into the firing pin hole in particular.
cheers mooncoon
cheers mooncoon
cheers mooncoon
cheers mooncoon
For loads in those big old cases, you will have best luck and accuracy with black powder, if you feel you need to use smokeless, a largely experimental powder with a dim future, I would suggest SR 4759, a powder meant for use in those big cases. Accurate Arms 5744 is probably a better bet, if you can get it. Filling those big cases only 1/4 full will cause all kinds of off sounding shots and hangfires and cream of wheat filler is best left for the breakfast table.IMHO
I use dryer lint and have no problems with it. Currently using it in 38-55 and occasionally in 38-56.
cheers mooncoon
My Winchester 1886 (40-82 cal.) was manufactured in 1887. The rifle is in very good condition but I doubt that the steel in the barrel was designed for smokeless loads. Still, I shoot smokeless so have reduced the loads considerably. All bullets were cast lead Lyman #403169 @ 245 gr. All bullets were crimped in place, Win. LR primers. Powder was IMR 4198, 24 gr. or IMR 3031, 34 gr. or Unique, 14 gr. I have used 1/4 TP wads, tamped down on top of the powder but stopped when I read about how "ringing" of the barrel or chamber could occur from use of wads. Now I use only 14 gr. of Unique and while not a heavy recoil load, it is satisfactory (for shooting at 100 yds.) considering the age and value of the rifle and milder steel of the barrel.
I have experienced something similar to you where the primer ignited but the powder charge failed to ignite or the primer ignited and sent the powder partially down the bore before it ignited (not a comfortable feeling). If the bullet didn't exit the muzzle, it would stick in the barrel and the raw powder ended up in the action during extraction of the brass. These failures of powder to ignite only occurred with 4198 or 3031 and only when I didn't use a TP wad, never with Unique. The second factor and possibly the sole cause was that the outside temp was about -20C (winter in Ontario).
I too, use the expensive 40-82 Bertram brass but have found it doesn't last long due to the thin walls on the brass. Starline 45-90 brass is heavier (from Bullseye Reloading Supplies - Bruno Gross, Fairview Alberta). Trim to length, and run it through the 40-82 dies as normal.
A very heavy rifle but fun to shoot. Keep working with it but be gentle.
I have experienced something similar to you where the primer ignited but the powder charge failed to ignite or the primer ignited and sent the powder partially down the bore before it ignited (not a comfortable feeling). If the bullet didn't exit the muzzle, it would stick in the barrel and the raw powder ended up in the action during extraction of the brass. These failures of powder to ignite only occurred with 4198 or 3031 and only when I didn't use a TP wad, never with Unique. The second factor and possibly the sole cause was that the outside temp was about -20C (winter in Ontario).
I too, use the expensive 40-82 Bertram brass but have found it doesn't last long due to the thin walls on the brass. Starline 45-90 brass is heavier (from Bullseye Reloading Supplies - Bruno Gross, Fairview Alberta). Trim to length, and run it through the 40-82 dies as normal.
A very heavy rifle but fun to shoot. Keep working with it but be gentle.
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If I was to use BP with my 240gr bullet do you know how many grains i should use, I have never loaded with BP but I have all the Stuff to do so and I also have a couple of cans of ffg?
More or less you fill the case to the base of the bullet using a drop tube. Not using a drop tube or not partially compressing the load will give you variable burns. You also have to use a very soft lube such as SPG with black powder.
I would not use black powder in an 86 because of the cleaning problems; the barrel has to be washed with hot (not boiling) water and a good scrubbing after shooting and you can almost be guaranteed of getting some water in the action. Also you will probably get some residues in the action over time. An 86 is a bugger to strip and reassemble because of the little S shaped link to the cartridge carrier. I think a Marlin is the only lever action repeater I would consider shooting black powder in.
I have never had any apparent problem with chamber or barrel ringing using dryer lint and I think the operative word is use only enough to keep the powder back not a great wad. The lint is consumable as the powder burns and I am not sure how much of the lint actually makes it to the bullet base.
cheers mooncoon
I would not use black powder in an 86 because of the cleaning problems; the barrel has to be washed with hot (not boiling) water and a good scrubbing after shooting and you can almost be guaranteed of getting some water in the action. Also you will probably get some residues in the action over time. An 86 is a bugger to strip and reassemble because of the little S shaped link to the cartridge carrier. I think a Marlin is the only lever action repeater I would consider shooting black powder in.
I have never had any apparent problem with chamber or barrel ringing using dryer lint and I think the operative word is use only enough to keep the powder back not a great wad. The lint is consumable as the powder burns and I am not sure how much of the lint actually makes it to the bullet base.
cheers mooncoon
If I was to use 30gr 4198 and a pinch of dryer lint,now when I say a pinch is this maybe 1\8-1\4 of an inch tapped down with a pencil and my 240gr bullet sound ok?.....is there going to be a air space between the lint and the bullet?
There will be lots of air space because the powder I am guessing will take up about 1/3 of the case. I would take a loose lump of dryer lint about 1/2" or a bit less diameter and poke that down with a pencil so that it forms a layer maybe 1/4" thick. While I am sure that it hits the base of the bullet, I don't think it creates any significant pressure spike because its mass is only a few grains.
cheers mooncoon
cheers mooncoon
I have never used dryer lint but it has to be superior to TP as a wad. Mooncoon, you mention that the dryer lint is consumable with the powder burning. This never completely occurred with 1/4 TP wads. There was usually at least a few burning embers of TP exiting the barrel with each shot. Never set the grass on fire but watched for it just the same.
Matt, Thanks for the PM thank-you. To add to your fun, while extracting the brass after firing (mine ejects forcefully straight up), try to catch it before it hits the table or dirt - you wouldn`t want to lose or damage even one piece of that expensive stuff now would you?
Matt, Thanks for the PM thank-you. To add to your fun, while extracting the brass after firing (mine ejects forcefully straight up), try to catch it before it hits the table or dirt - you wouldn`t want to lose or damage even one piece of that expensive stuff now would you?
I have never seen anything coming out the muzzle so I assume the lint must have been either burned or totally fragmented in the barrel. You can smell a slight smell of burnt lint when you shoot. Sort of kick myself for trading it; used to use it at the local turkey shoot as well as loan it to others to shoot in the matches with.
cheers mooncoon
cheers mooncoon
From Ken Waters "Pet loads"............Bertram brass 245gr Lyman 403169 34-36gr IMR 3031,245gr Lyman 403169 26gr IMR4198 or 40gr H-4895 same lyman bullet.Also for 257gr jacketed 36gr RE #7 and 257gr jacketed 42-45grH-4895.Cases can be formed from 45-90Win using 40-82 FL die.Leave cases FL [2.40"] and fireform.Size cast bullets .408" flatnosed bullets only.............Harold *use data at own risk
Thanks this should be very use full, I have two of Ken Waters books but they don't have any data for the 40-82. I tried 30gr of H4198 and lyman 240gr bullet with a pinch of lint,the first 3 went off with out a flinch the fourth did not go off,the bullet went about 8 inchs up the barrel,so I removed it and tried the fifth one!!!! it went bang when I removed the empty case it was split down at the bottom of the case? I don't know if the brass is junk ( its brand new bertrams and its the last time I will buy it!) or if something else happened, there was no excessive expansion.
John Spartan
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Another powder that looks promising is Western Powders' Blackhorn 209 - bulky enough without black powder's faults. I plan on getting some and doing up some loads with both 260 gr. cast boolits and Barnes Originals 250 gr jacketed bullets. Info I got from Western said I should be ok to start with 90% load density and work up until I hit the factory original velocity for the 40-82 WCf or the case won't take anymore powder.
An Adobe Reader page of load data for Blackhorn 209 is available free of charge under Articles, Miscellaneous on the Loaddata.com website. Of note, many of the loads on this page are close to or just over 100% load density - eliminating the need for fillers. Standard deviation for loads is often in the single digits with 21 fps being the most reported.
An Adobe Reader page of load data for Blackhorn 209 is available free of charge under Articles, Miscellaneous on the Loaddata.com website. Of note, many of the loads on this page are close to or just over 100% load density - eliminating the need for fillers. Standard deviation for loads is often in the single digits with 21 fps being the most reported.
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