40 S&Ws Suck

I think you missed the point of the video. There is zero advantage to a 40 or 45 over modern 9mm defensive ammo. You lose capacity add cost and recoil.


Tdc
 
TDC said:
I think you missed the point of the video. There is zero advantage to a 40 or 45 over modern 9mm defensive ammo. You lose capacity add cost and recoil.


Tdc
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To be fair he actually argues that there is no worthwhile advantage to the newer high-pressure / high-recoil cartridges to .45 or 9mm, and that the additional recoil is a disadvantage, especially in modern lightweight guns. He does not include .45ACP in the "disadvantaged" cartridges, but does include .45GAP. He does not mention capacity or say that the .45ACP is not competitive with the 9mm.
 
He says dumb things on occasion. This is one of those times.

Sorry but if you use "high quality'' modern ammo in a .40 it ALWAYS trumps a 9mm. Simple physics, heavier bullet going faster. I can personally shoot my G22 just as fast as my G17.

His statements about .357 auto are also mis-founded, that round's hallmark claim to fame is barrier penetration. A very important characteristic for police ammo IMO. It can do things 9&45 cannot. . I have personal experience testing barrier penetration and came away very impressed.
 
I think there is a reason why almost all the Police forces use 40 S&W now. Recoil isn't an issue with any of these calibers when you get some trigger time and learn your pistol. With my USP 40, there are 12 and 16rd mags available, don't think capacity is that much of an issue either.

Sounds like this guy cannot handle the recoil of the hotter rounds.

Every week some armchair quarterback puts a youtube video on which caliber (or stopping power) is the best and it's his opinion only. I have all 3 that are spoken about in the video and I like all 3. In a home defense situation I would most likely use my 12 gauge if possible.
 
mlehtovaara said:
40 S&W is for mall ninja's and .45 acp is far too limiting on mag capacity.
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Sounds more than funny in Canada.
If You were serious at all...which I doubt.
Obviously all the cops must be the mall ninjas.
You can't cheat on the physics - 40 will always be a bit better round than 9 for its intended purpose.
All the handgun rounds are underpowered.
Life is not like the movie.
 
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40 is so often pummeled as being 'inferior' or at minimum 'provides no advantage' to the 9mm round. I shoot lots of 9mm, 40, 45ACP and really don't understand the criticism. If you want lighter recoil than a 40 - you should shoot 9mm or load your own 40 target loads or shoot a 22 .... certainly don't shoot 45, 357, 44, 10mm, etc if they cause you discomfort.

Saying a particular cartridge is for mall ninjas is pure silliness....
 
Whatever. I personally like the .40 because I dig 10mm. One box of bullets work for both. He is entitled to his opinion of course, but so am I.
 
Thats right Max Power. Only you are not being obnoxious about or making self promoting vids telling everyone how you are the master of modern combat and the rest of us are idiots.To quote a friend of mine ( who's "resume" by the way I would gladly put up against JY) " TR classes are fine if you dont know any better or until you actually take a class with professional". True pro dont go around making vids the way he does. I'm sure TR fan boys will be around to tell me how I am wrong and that fine they have that
right to their opinion as well. Oh and by the way. I do have a Gen 2 Glock23 with over 50K rounds through it. The trick is called maintenance. But wait "NOO IIII DONT II MUST BE LYING".
 
This video is retarded, and yaeger is a caliber diva. I don't give a **** what caliber anyone shoots. With our magazine limits, I would much rather have a 40s&w or 45acp in the pipe than a 9mm, especially when most self defense shootings take place within a few feet. I'd gladly take the extra advantage in potential damage the 40 would offer over a 9mm. As for recoil, my gen 4 G22 is breaking in very nicely with 1646 rounds through the pipe, and the recoil is very manageable.
 
Non-phixion said:
With our magazine limits, I would much rather have a 40s&w or 45acp in the pipe than a 9mm, especially when most self defense shootings take place within a few feet. I'd gladly take the extra advantage in potential damage the 40 would offer over a 9mm.
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+1

Any advantage in sheer number of rounds a 9mm platform can carry is negated by our laws. Since you can ONLY have 10 rounds of ANY caliber in your semi automatic pistol, there is no advantage in having a 9mm over a larger caliber.

I also think that recoil management in the larger calibers is merely a question of practice and getting used to each caliber's feel. Hardly anything that's outside the realm of most people.

As for JY's claim that the guns will wear out....I'd have to ask for proof. He doesn't point to any studies or mention any research, other than his personal anectodal evidence, so I won't take the risk as being too serious. I have heard of more KABOOMS than I have of premature wear due to high pressure rounds in badly designed platforms.

My 2 soon-to-be-removed-copper-pieces.
 
Melnibonean said:
+1

Any advantage in sheer number of rounds a 9mm platform can carry is negated by our laws. Since you can ONLY have 10 rounds of ANY caliber in your semi automatic pistol, there is no advantage in having a 9mm over a larger caliber.

I also think that recoil management in the larger calibers is merely a question of practice and getting used to each caliber's feel. Hardly anything that's outside the realm of most people.

As for JY's claim that the guns will wear out....I'd have to ask for proof. He doesn't point to any studies or mention any research, other than his personal anectodal evidence, so I won't take the risk as being too serious. I have heard of more KABOOMS than I have of premature wear due to high pressure rounds in badly designed platforms.

My 2 soon-to-be-removed-copper-pieces.
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I've read that a run of G22's a few years ago had an issue with frame rails shearing off. I believe this has been rectified since then, for me it comes down to maintanence. After a range session I completely strip the gun, clean it till its spotless, and then relubricate since I never know the next time I will use my glock. Most of the kabooms were caused by overpowered reloads, however I have seen a couple cases on the net of G21 kabooms from overpowered factory loads.

I bought a box of reloads once then I found a ruptured case on the ground at the range one time that was ejected from my pistol...never again. I also witnessed someone almost lose a hand at the range a couple days ago using the same brand of reloaded ammunition, however it was in a 1911 so a couple other factors may have come into play, but it was still scary none the less.

In short, take care of your gun, and it will take care of you, no matter what caliber you shoot. Yaeger likes to be devisive in some videos, and theres no need for that, regardless of how many students hes trained. His bullpup video was also retarded, especially because he used the worst set up AUG as an example.
 
Throughout the video he mentions that he prefers low pressure rounds like the 9MM and .45acp. He also says the high pressure rounds like the .40cal wear guns out faster.

Here are the max pressure of the three main cartridges loaded to the max using my Lyman manual as the data base:

9MM 32,600CUP
.40S&W 23,500CUP
.45acp 17,900CUP

Now I have never known anyone describe the 9MM as a low pressure round...ever. The .45acp and .38spl yes but 9MM and .40S&W never. The above pressures were the max pressures listed using one of the powders over all bullet types listed. HIs argument for the 9MM seems to be somewhat hollow if he bases it on calibre pressures.

Forgeting all those who worry about calibre killing stats here is why I have the calibres I have:

.38spl cuz I like shooting IDPA SSR Division

.357Mag cuz I like shooting my Rossi Carbine and .38spl brass cause difficult to remove carbon chamber rings

9MM IDPA SSP Division

.40S&W IDPA ESP Division @ 130PF, Steel Competitions @>130PF with 180gr boolits, IPSC Production cuz the gun has a +5# trigger, IPSC Standard cuz another gun is set up for major loadings.

.41 Long Colt cuz it is a neat old cartridge

45ACP IDPA CDP Division

45 Colt cuz Gene Autry still has a fan
Please note all caridge loadings show great penetration on 1/4" Carboard Targets. Even better when I use paper targets.
Not sure if the RCMP/FBI have tested relative ability to penetrate carboard.

Take Care


Bob
ps I understand the S&W M&P was designed around the .40S&W, think frame, then adapted for the 9MM. The .40Cal is the most used round in the LEO market in the US, the guns principle target market.
 
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I was talking to a Manitoba CO the other day and they dropped their G22's due to "cracking frames" and replaced them with 9mm Sigs. I believe that they as well as the Winnipeg police (who haven't switched) were running second gens from the mid 90's still...interesting. I wonder if this issue was simply high round counts over a long period of time, as most departments would have moved to gen 3's or earlier after 20 years...
 
As I stated earlier the key is maintenance. Not so much cleaning but my 1992 purchased 23 has gone through over a dozen recoil spring/rods, On my 3rd extractor,2 slide stop. and other springs etc. I did not wait for these parts to fail but rather when I notice issues starting to show I diagnose it and replace the part. Most were received free from Glock. Some were purchased. and just like every other gun I own I have at least 1 or 2 of each of the parts that ware out or are designed to be replaced at specific round counts. Kind of like my vehicles. Just a thought.
As far as mag capacity goes. There is usually only 1 or 2 rounds diff between 9 and 40 in gun of equal size and style.(that is if you count
actual mag capacity, our neutered mags not included). Yet JY is the same guy that insists you rack the slide after every reload claiming that
loosing a round or two is insignificant.
 
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