410sxs vs black bear

I guess I should have made it clear earlier that I ALWAYS carry a rifle while I am in the bush. Besides a standard hunting rifle, for convenience I have a Lee Enfield, professionally cut down to 19" barrel, and aperature sights, with the disc taken out of the peep.
Lately I've switched to a Marlin 45-70, for the novlety, more than anything else, and I have a 1 to 4½ Bushnel 3200 on it, which I leave at one power in the bush. All the rifles I use have good slings.
David, one problem I've had, is that in my early years in the bush I had no fear of blackbears. When bears were shot as vermin, it was hard to find one! And they would get frantically out of the way. All the old timers in the bush that I knew, the people that lived full time in the wilderness, as trappers and prospectors, had no fear whatsoever, of black bears. You will read where I said these people considered a black bear about as dangerous as a Jersey cow.
The funny part of all this is I think I was one of the first people to start telling other people, that hey, bears in parks could be dangerous. It was plain to see, they behaved different than wild bears, and I said I wouldn't trust them.
Now, with the protection that bears get, they get used to people not hurting them, and thus can be dangerous.
 
H4831 said:
It was plain to see, they behaved different than wild bears, and I said I wouldn't trust them.

Now, with the protection that bears get, they get used to people not hurting them, and thus can be dangerous.
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Kinds-sorta like some politician pond-scum I could mention.
 
H4831 said:
I am sure getting fed up on reading about bear, meaning black bear, defence guns.
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Amen.

H4831 said:
It is only bears that are habituated with people, that may present a danger. Bears that are not the slightest bit afraid of humans, look on them as just a possible food source. If you let them, the extremely odd one, may decide to take a bite out of you.
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That is an absolute myth. H4831, I am appalled that someone with your experience would perpetuate the stereotype that black bears are harmless! It is that type of attitude that gets people into trouble.

Blanket statements like that are rubbish!

The reality is that every bear-human encounter is a unique situation and depending upon the circumstances, it can turn out completely harmless or end up with the person, mauled, killed or perhaps the bear driven off by a person that was adequately prepared. No situation is predictable, no outcome is guaranteed. The only thing outdoorsmen can do is prepare themselves beforehand.
All hunters and outdoorsmen should study and learn bear behavior, although it will not guarantee their safety. Only dealing with individual situations appropriately will tip the odds in your favor.

Never treat black bears with disdain.

Read about the circumstances of the Liard Hot Springs attack, in which an average 225 lb black bear killed an adult lady. An adult man came to her defence and was also killed in mere seconds by that bear.
A second adult man came to the scene to try to help. The bear immediately turned it's wrath on him and that guy was being savagely mauled when a vacationing American that had a .30-30 rifle in his vehicle rushed in and killed the bear at pointblank range; it would have surely killed that guy too.

If you read the particulars of that attack, the bear was not a 'habituated bear'. It was a wild bear that had never been seen around the camp yada, yada...

According to numbers from Gary Shelton's book, Bear Attacks: The Deadly Truth, in the province of B.C., only 25% of statistical black bear attacks involve bears that have been habituated to humans. It's on pg. 258 if you want to look it up. That means 75% of black bear attacks involved incidents with wild black bears, that had little or no previous human interaction.



As far as the original question, I suppose a .410 is better then nothing...
 
I personally have known 2 people in my life that have been killed by a black bear. One was training (running) for biathalon when she must have triggered the attack from behind. I would imagine its the same as dogs, they must have some instinct to chase down something that is running in the opposite direction.
The other was just 17 and he got killed by a sick bear. They know this because after the wildlife/police shot the bear, it was discovered that the bear had several "puncture" wounds in his head from being bitten hard by another bear. It had a bad infection most likely affecting its brain. Both of these things make me NEVER go in the woods without something that goes bang in my hands (I don't go looking for bruins, I just don't want to be number 3)
Bears aren't likely to "come charging" or anything of the nature, its just that sometimes, circumstances are what they are, and bears - being wild animals that don't know "the rules", do what they do.......be bears. They are curious, strong, hungry animals. Best to just be prepared "in case". If you are smart while in the woods, you'll likely NEVER see a bear.
Talk while you walk, carry a stick or something and occasionally hit rocks etc while you walk to make noise, store food smartly, avoid densely forested areas - especially in bear country, wear a bell, etc etc. Just be smart in bear country, they don't like to be surprised. If they hear you coming, they will scatter. They won't hear you coming , then "get ready for the ambush". Its just not like that.
Get yourself one of those double barrel backpackers, or get a cheap s x s and chop the barrels/stock into the minimum legal lengths. (in either 12, 16, or 20 guage) or like stated before, a short win 30-30 (like in Zombieland!!!!)
 
i have found while hunting them. most of them consider you another bear.depending on the size of the bear you are either a bigger or smaller bear.if it sees you as a smaller/weaker bear then you might have a problem.if you encounter a bear make yourself as large as possible.make lots of noise,yell etc. carry a little battery operated radio with you.the bears here the music,voices on the radio and are long gone before you even see them.if you see a bear that has no idea you are there try and circle upwind as soon as it smells you it will be gone.
 
BigUglyMan said:
I'd sure like to see some of those articles. Got any copies or links?
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I have personally hit black bears on the ass with a broom to get them moving, on more than one occasion, in field kitchens at CFB Gagetown. I did it because thats what the cook usually did, and others. Didn't seem particularly dangerous and I never heard of anyone getting a chomp out of them. They just booted it. 100% true. I'm sure others have had bears barrel out of field kitchens next to them or done the same.

I don't mean to imply that a black bear cannot be dangerous, or that they never eat people, but in some places and times, they can be pretty timid. The blacks out this way in particular, don't see too ferocious. I understand that black bears in BC do seem to be more prone to attacking humans than the bears out here, and I assume, NB. I've had trout stolen by blacks while fishing, but they did bugger off once they had them, running away while we pelted them with rocks. I'll leave it at that lest this post come back to haunt me after I get eaten on my next fishing trip. :yingyang:
 
Well, I'll be off to the far northern corner of Algonquin on a fishing expedition in the coming weeks. Bear/coon protection will consist of a clean camp, and food hung from a tree at night. Additional bear defense will be my pocket knife.
It's all the park allows anyway, even if I did want the extra weight on the portage, and I don't.
Hopefully, I'll get some speckles, and maybe a few moose pics. I doubt I'll see any bears, even though there are plenty where I'm going.
Bears (or at least the ones I've met on the trail) have yet to figure out Mr. canoe head. I met one a few years back browsing on grass along the portage trail in northern Pukasquaw. She apparently did not hear my non to stealthy approach, but she sure put the hind feet over her ears when she saw me. Don't even think you can out run a bear, just be faster than the guy you are with. :)
 
H4831, very interesting observations. I have spoken with a fellow who used to run in a guiding territory over toward the mountains. He said the same thing about the good old days when there was less trouble with black bears. Part of what he figured was that in the old days the big old bears with smarts helped keep the bear population down enough to keep the idiot teenage beers less likely to be encountered.
The other thing that I am getting used to is the regional difference in BC bear behaviour. Part function of habituation but also part a function of thier natural environment. Those QCI bears have it so good they are like living next door to a plump jolly neighbour all high on good living and are no threat. While the poor buggers in our back yard are at constant risk of starvation and hard times and need to act accordingly. Seems the southern coast bears are all rear end cause most of my memories of them is just that going over the rise quick.

One other bear behavior old days stories which someone on here may have heard is of the old guy down in 'Woodpecker' who lived alone in a cabin back in the real old days. He had a regular contingent of bears about the place all the time and was noted for them. This went on for literally decades. One day walking home from Quesnel they (the bears) ambushed him some distance from the cabin. He managed to get to his rifle and from his front door killed 11 black bears!
 
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